[DeTomaso] Authentic versus non-authentic

Fri Oct 9 17:09:46 EDT 2009

I think part of the problem is the motives and actions of the owner of the
replica. With many of the AC Cobra replicas on the market the cars are
Fiberglas and everyone knows "Real" AC  cobras were made of aluminum.
 The problems start to occur when a car whether is a replica kit or later
production of the original and is so close mechanically and physically an
unscrupulous seller can try to pass some copy as an original. There where
many AC aces ( the British cars that I believe were the basis for the
original AC cobras. When early AC Cobras started bringing $250,000 to
$500,000 people started getting very creative  in their attempts to
fabricate convincing counterfeits. The AC Ace was a car that could be used
to fool all but an expert.  The Hermaphrodite that is  currently for sale on
e-bay was originally listed in the Detomaso Pantera category.. It was not
clearly stated that this was some from of a replica. In fact people on the
list familiar with Long & Newman claim that this creation is not even an
authentic Long and Newman. So to my way of thinking there should be no
Detomaso badging anywhere on this car. At least not while it is listed for
sale. Once someone buys it they can putt a Rolls Royce Hood ornament on it
if they like. This car should be listed as a replica of a "Long and Newman".
The reason factory Five stopped selling their replicas with Cobra badging is
due to pressure and law suites from the people who still own rights to the
name. No one that manufactures Ferrari, Lamborghini , or Porsche kit cars
sells them with trade marked or copy righted emblems , logo's or badges.
What a person does or chooses to display on a kit car after they buy one and
build one is their business. Once they list it for sale it becomes a
different story. Unless there are substantially clear disclaimers indicating
that the car is not An authentic Ferrari, Cobra, Lamborghini, Porsche or any
other trade marked or copyrighted name or marque he is skating on thin legal
ice and is either foolish or naive or a crook. Remember "Cavet Emptor "" Let
the buyer beware" This is nothing new. People have been making ans selling
counterfeit goods for thousands of years. Going back to Chinese or Egyptian
antiquities  to works of art to historical signatures, weapons , ceramics.
Virtually anything that happens to be valuable and can be forged is subject
to being copied Just watch an episode of antiques road show..That's why
museums and collectors employ experts to help identify and differentiate
copies from the real McCoy and occasionally even the experts get fooled. One
museum recently discovered they had several paintings that they had paid
millions of dollars for that were counterfeits. The only difference is these
are cars and at least in the case of the abomination on ebay no one needs to
hire an expert to determine it is a fake. That doesn't mean some poor
uninformed sucker won't bite and get ripped off for several thousands of
dollars. that's why I believe we need to stick together as a group and work
to identify fraud or attempts at fraud no matter how poor the quality is and
speak up to expose those who would defraud innocent victims. Today it may be
an amateur attempt at a replica car. Tomorrow it may be gauges or wheels or
brake pads. The people who resort to counterfeiting are not limited to one
area or one product line. they will attempt to strike anywhere they can make
a buck. Sometimes it's something "harmless" like  an amp gauge and next
it's  a suspension part or a brake part or in a more modern car an airbag
and next thing you know someone has been killed because they inadvertently
lost their life because they bought  a counterfeit part that was not D.O.T.
compliant that some vendor bought from a Chinese supplier so he could save a
few bucks and sell a knockoff instead off the real deal.
These are just my opinions and some of you may think I am over reacting or
that I am making a mountain out of a molehill. Fortunately I have never had
an accident ( due to a counterfiet part or lost a friend due to these type
of activities but I did buy a Toyota land cruiser that had it's Vin #'s
changed ( a process known as "tagging") Besides doing  immeasurable damage
to my profesional reputation ( I was in the car business and ran a
dealership with the same name as my family name ) This event hit the
newspapers. Although I was a victim the newspapers didn't tell the whole
story ( as usual) and when everything was said and done It cost me over
$65,000.00 in cash and destroyed my reputation in a business I had been in
for 25 years. I was in a small  geographic area  and they people who
perpetrated the scam were long gone and could not be located. They say that
shit rolls down hill. Well I was the one at the bottom of the hill. The
Newspapers implied I should have known better since I was in the car
business.Inspite of the fact that I had taken the Toyota Land Cruiser to one
of the older Toyota dealers in the area to have them check it out before I
bought it. This was before carfax which now flags vin #'s of cars that have
a blemished history . One of the things they look for are cars that have a
history of having  been stolen. That's one of the reasons I made a point of
noting that the Pantera replica of a replica had a blue tag and California
issued Vin  ( the blue tag that says California assigned Vin  indicates that
the vehicle exhibiting this tag is a recovered theft.)  A California State
police officer in the auto theft squad who was investigating this car told
me that the "blue tag indicated the car was a recovered theft" A recovered
theft is considered a "branded title "and many banks and insurance companies
won't touch a car that has a "branded title"  In essence there is nothing
wrong with buying a car that has been stolen and recovered, but it should
serve as a "Red Flag" so that you should  use extra scrutiny when
investigating a car that comes up as a"recovered theft " before you purchase
it.
So those of you who think this listing is ""harmless" or my concerns are
"ffunny"  or "ridiculous" you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I
seriously suggest you reevaluate your position with a broader view of the
potential for harm and the importance of people like us who can recognize
attempts to sell  counterfeit Pantera or Detomaso parts or cars and doing
everything we can to expose it.  That's one of the best reasons for
supporting the various registries. Tracking serial numbers and modifications
made to specific Panteras may also help you to recover or identify your car
if it is ever stolen.

Boyd
2009/10/9 Jan Krakevik <jcf at ragai.com>

> ..well ...it would be a good start..:))
> Best regards,
>
> Jan Einar Krakevik
> Director
> JAN CAR FACTORY, UAB
> Sirokomles g. 38, Nemezis, LT-13262, Vilniaus raj., Lithuania
> tel: +370 685 50623
> +474 106 3733
> e-mail: jan at jancarfactory.com
> www.jancarfactory.com
> http://picasaweb.google.com/Jancarfactory
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Torbjørn Harlem" <torbharl at online.no>
> To: <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; <detomaso at realbig.com>; <asajay at asajay.com>;
> <damaadams at aol.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Authentic versus non-authentic
>
>
> > if you pick up Elvis`s hair at the barber shop and make you a wig.
> > are you then suppose to be a Elvis clone.
> >
> >
> > TH
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <damaadams at aol.com>
> > To: <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; <detomaso at realbig.com>; <asajay at asajay.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Authentic versus non-authentic
> >
> >
> >>I too have run into some strange situations with guys presenting replicas
> >>in potentially misleading ways.That's why I will never place any kind of
> >>Ford badge or graphic on my GT40. I have a Superformance decal on the
> >>windscreen that hopefully helps avoid confusion. When I get the "what is
> >>it?" question, I never call it a Ford GT40, and follow with the
> >>"duplicate"
> >>explanation. On those occasions when it is obvious that the person is
> >>still
> >>not quite understanding,?I tell them it's a 2008 car built in a factory
> in
> >>South Africa using blueprints from 1965. That seems to work.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com <lt%3Bkenn_green at yahoo.com>
> >
> >>
> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com; asajay at asajay.com
> >>
> >> Sent: Fri, Oct 9, 2009 12:07 pm
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Authentic versus non-authentic
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What I saw that bothers me are people advertising "65 Cobras" and making
> >> it   appear that it is a 65, and thus not a replica, and it really is
> >> just
> >> a quirk in   the law that let them register it as a 65.? I think they
> are
> >> trying to con the   unsuspecting.  ?  Ken    --- On Fri, 10/9/09,
> >> asajay at asajay.com <asajay at asajay.com <lt%3Basajay at asajay.com>>
> wrote:      From:
> >> asajay at asajay.com <asajay at asajay.com <lt%3Basajay at asajay.com>>
>  Subject: [DeTomaso]
> >> Authentic
> >> versus non-authentic  To: detomaso at realbig.com  Date: Friday, October
> 9,
> >> 2009, 8:24 AM      I think Mike Drew owns a great example.? He owns an
> >> original Pantera?   that has been someone restored -and- modified but is
> >> an authentic?   Pantera.? He also owns a Mustang that is a clone of (I
> >> think) a GT350.?   ? He makes no bones about it being a clone and not an
> >> authentic, even?   though it probably far exceeds the performance of an
> >> original.    In contrast, there used to be a guy here in Spokane that
> >> owned an AC?   Cobra replicar.? It was very nicely done but h!
> >> e continually passed it?   off as an authentic original.? When
> challenged
> >> on that by folks who?   knew better, and after looking at the VIN tags,
> >> this guy would usually?   just -leave- the car show in a huff.? It was
> >> too
> >> bad really, he had a?   nice car and probably could have won some awards
> >> even though it was?   not an original Cobra.    In the kit car world
> >> there
> >> are those that are fantastic, and those?   that are not.? The kit
> Pantera
> >> (or Fake Pantera as some have called?   it) is an example of a poorly
> >> engineered project.? It would take a lot?   of work to make it look
> right
> >> even if it wasn't an authentic Pantera.???  At least it's not being
> >> passed
> >> off as an authentic Pantera.? Though we?   have a hard enough time
> >> sometimes reminding people the Pantera in it's?   original was not and
> is
> >> not a -kit-.    On the other end of the spectrum we have things like the
> >> Kirham Cobra?   or the Factory Five GT40s.? These ares such finely
> >> engineered replicas?   that someone like me c!
> >> an't even afford one.? I'd be stuck with the old?   fashioned volkswag
> >>
> >>
> >> on chassis with a fiberglass shell kit.? I would?   dearly love to get
> >> into a replica GT40 and maybe someday I'll be able?   to afford one, but
> >> I'm certainly not going to pass it off as an?   original, unless it
> >> really
> >> is.    And in fact I think Bob makes my overall point, because I don't
> >> think?   I could own that much of an original car that I couldn't touch
> >> it.???  The Pantera is different, thankfully, but an original GT40 or
> an?
> >> original AC Cobra?? I don't know I could enjoy it.    Anyway.... just
> >> thought I'd pop in here for a minute.  Asa Jay
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