[DeTomaso] The Fake Pantera Lives????

[GW]

This thing seems like a trash can being sold as a car. If a buyer is 
duped about this car being anything I don't think anyone could help them.

Gary

boyd casey wrote:
> Mike
>  I am surprised at you casual approach to this. Your are normally such a
> stickler for detail and accuracy you have even corrected the grammar in
> e-mails. The first guy selling this care had it listed as a Detomaso Pantera
> . That is a fraudulent misrepresentation. It is probably true that no one
> that knows anything about "real Panteras" is going to be fooled by this but
> some poor sap who thinks he is getting a bargain may be deceived. While you
> choose to adorn your kit car with replica manufacturers tags or trade marked
> names you are doing it to make an accurate or more realistic replica. The
> manufacturers of replicars make it a point not to include copyrighted or
> trademarked logos or tags on their products prior to their sale to the
> public. I have read of manufacturers taking legal action to prevent
> manufacturers of replicas being sued for attempting to do just that. There
> have been numerous cases of people trying to sell counterfeit AC cobras as
> originals. There have been so many different versions of "Cobra "cars made
> since the earl 60's that it is easy to see how someone might be fooled.
> There were cars made under licence , there were cars made as later attempts
> to resurrect Cobra's as a viable car company. There were English AC cars
> that were converted to 289 ci and 427 ci and presented as US AC cobras. When
> the original is worth up to $500,000.00 people will try all sorts of things.
> Your decision to festoon your car with badges from the original is not an
> attempt to deceive anyone. Taking a cheap Japanese watch and sticking a
> "Rolex " label on it is fraudulent and illegal ( if you are selling it) It
> is copyright and trade mark infringement ) and* illegal even if you disclose
> that it is a knock off*. So if you think it's amusing that someone stuck a
> Detomaso body tag on this car and it is  just harmless fun you are entitled
> to your opinion. I personally take it more seriously. Most of if not all the
> "novelty body tags I have seen for sale were silver vinyl not aluminum (
> like the real tags) I think that if you are going to go through life as an
> anal retentive obsessed with accuracy and detail and truth you should be
> consistent. In fact instead of dissecting my post and itemizing the points
> you found acceptable, the points you found ridiculous and the points you
> found amusing  why don't you stick to answering people who actually ask for
> your opinion or help.( Like I have done on many occasions ) I don't remember
> anyone asking you for your critique of the content , grammar,  or validity
> of their opinion.. Although you are very knowledgeable concerning Panteras
> ( and many other subjects) I also don't remember you being nominated or
> elected to the position or arbiter of  post content, , tastefullness of
> Pantera modifications,  critic or all around editor of biglist content. You
> are certainly free to continue in your self appointed role  so long as are
> amusing yourself.  But as far as facts go ( in the format you seem to be so
> fond of::
>
>   
>>>>> I said:
>>>>>           
>
> "If the Detomaso Vin tag t(with the number removed is an authentic
> Detomaso tag salvaged from a wrecked car it is illegal to remove it and
> place it on another car. "
>  You said: ">>>Okay, I'm just laughing now."
> The fact is that it is a Felony to remove a vin tag from any part of a car
> ( whether it is placed on another car or not) it is a way of
> tracking salvaged auto parts and  prevent criminals from stealing cars and
> chopping them up and using the parts to build other cars. The vin number is
> displayed on numerous parts in many more locations on modern cars for that
> very reason. It is an additional Felony to attach a vin # from another car
> to a car other then the one that the vin # actually belongs to. As a person
> that became a victim of just that type of fraud I don't laugh when I think
> about the $40,000 Toyota Land cruiser that had been "tagged " by car
> theives. and the purchased by me . This episode cost me a total of $65,000
> between the purchase and subsequent legal fees. You can laugh all you want I
> take it very seriously.
>
> I said: "Putting a Detomaso tag on a car
> that was not manufactured by Detomaso is deceptive. "
> You said:
>   
>>>> "Oh please--nobody is trying to pretend that this is a real Pantera--the
>>>>         
> ad purports that it's a kit car.  And anybody who convinced himself that it
> was a real De Tomaso, deserves what he gets!"
> I was talking about the first seller. *He was trying to put something over
> on someone.  He was trying to do exactly what you say  no one was trying to
> do "Nobody is trying to pretend this is a real Pantera" He listed the car
> on E-bay as a Detomaso not a Detomaso inspired replica.* When he was
> contacted be me and several other list members and asked to change his
> listing to reflect the true nature of what he was selling he ignored our
> requests and got nasty. The State Police took it seriously to investigate
> it.The police officer was the one that pointed out the recovered theft Vin
> tag. I don't think it's a big deal that the car is a recovered theft but
> most peopple buying a recovered theft would want to know because when it is
> titled it will have a "branded Title " Which for those of you who don't know
> is a salvage title. Many banks won't finance a salvage titled car and like
> wise some insurance companies won't underwrite them ,and if you ever do have
> a claim the value of a salvage vehicle is going to be considered to be
> lower. (that's why CARFAX makes such a big deal about protecting people from
> inadvertently purchasing a salvage titled car)  I  also don't agree with
> your philosophy that anybody stupid enough to buy it deserves what they get.
> I believe that people should be protected from predators and scam artists.
>   *I also said I don't know anything about the current seller. I was
> referring to the previous seller.*
>
> You also said: "The VIN was stamped on a tag, which was affixed to the top
> of the dash.  It was also stamped on a tag which was affixed to the inside
> doorjamb.  Finally, it was stamped into the body on top of the brake
> booster.  A sheetmetal surround,  ( Mike  Sheet Metal is two words! ;>)
> )which had the recommended oil, brake fluid, and antifreeze was laid over
> the stamped VIN, with a 'window' in it which allowed the stamped VIN to be
> seen.
> That's all that this is--that sheetmetal surround.  Nobody is trying to fake
> a Pantera VIN--there is no VIN visible in the opening.  It's just a thing,
> that's all--and it's not even put in the right location.  There is also a
> blank (black) Vignale VIN tag under the 'assigned identification' tag, with
> nothing stamped on it--again, no attempt to foist this off as a genuine De
> Tomaso. ( again I will restate that I am not commenting on this seller or
> his motives but I am refering back to the previous seller who listed the car
> a few months ago on E-bay . It was listed as a DETOMASO PANTERA, not A
> Detomaso influenced ,  or Pantera Replica. he made brief mention of Long &
> Newman , but even that is suposedly untrue.  (aperson on the list that had
> first hand knowledge of Long & Newman repplicas said that this car was
> definitly not a Long & Newman car ( Maybe he meant it was a replica of a
> Long and Newman, in other words a cheap copy of a copy)
>
> I checked all the Vin numbers on my car , and the body tags and no where did
> I find a  surround with the place for the Vin # cut out. . My car is a 1973
> L and may be different from the model you cited . It has the Vin on the dash
> in the corner of the windshield, a partial Vin on a Detomaso tag near the
> master cylinder and the full Vin on a plastic tag with additional info ion
> the drivers side door jamb. None of them had a cut out section with a plate
> over the Vin #. I will be Happy to post the pictures but as you know I can't
> post attachments to list posts.
> Not everyone has devoted a substantial portion of their life to sports cars
> and Panteras. They should not be punished and victimized just because they
> don't know that they are being lied to. I suppose you think it's also
> alright to pass counterfeit money, Phony Art work, Chinese knock offs of
> prescription drugs that do nothing and kill people. We are being inundated
> everyday by phony merchandise with fake labels and cheap inferior content.
> This also promotes a general disrespect for the rule of law. Ignoring trade
> marks, copyrights and licensing agreements. How about when someone
> manufactures counterfeit aircraft parts and  your C-130 falls out of the
> sky, would you deserve what you got because you were "Too stupid to know the
> difference between the real hardware and the phony knock off?
> These are off course all just my personal  opinions and do not relect the
> opinion of the management. You are entitiled to your oppinion and since you
> seem to enjoy sharing it on such a variety of topics I thought I would give
> it a try.
>
> Your Friend Boyd. :>)
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:31 AM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> In a message dated 10/7/09 7 53 50, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
>>
>>
>> I don't know if the Detomaso tag displayed is an aftermarket copy or an
>> original taken from another car but in either case you can clearly see were
>> the vin number location has been cut out.
>>
>>     
>>>>> Boyd, Boyd, Boyd....
>>>>>           
>> The VIN was stamped on a tag, which was affixed to the top of the dash.  It
>> was also stamped on a tag which was affixed to the inside doorjamb.
>> Finally, it was stamped into the body on top of the brake booster.  A
>> sheetmetal surround, which had the recommended oil, brake fluid, and
>> antifreeze was laid over the stamped VIN, with a 'window' in it which
>> allowed the stamped VIN to be seen.
>>
>> That's all that this is--that sheetmetal surround.  Nobody is trying to
>> fake a Pantera VIN--there is no VIN visible in the opening.  It's just a
>> thing, that's all--and it's not even put in the right location.  There is
>> also a blank (black) Vignale VIN tag under the 'assigned identification'
>> tag, with nothing stamped on it--again, no attempt to foist this off as a
>> genuine De Tomaso.
>>
>>
>>  Putting a Detomaso tag on a car
>> that was not manufactured by Detomaso is deceptive.
>>
>>     
>>>>> Oh please--nobody is trying to pretend that this is a real Pantera--the
>>>>>           
>> ad purports that it's a kit car.  And anybody who convinced himself that it
>> was a real De Tomaso, deserves what he gets!
>>
>>
>>  The state Police auto
>> theft squad officer that i spoke to and who investigated this car said that
>> the BLUE tag this car displays is a RECOVERED theft issued by the State of
>> California NOT a KIT CAR vin assignment.
>>
>>     
>>>>> Could be?  And what if it was?
>>>>>           
>>  I corresponded with the original
>> seller and there is no question in my mind that he was trying to pull a
>> fast
>> one .
>>
>>     
>>>>> Wasn't the original seller in California?  Isn't this current seller in
>>>>>           
>> Arizona?  Do you believe that this guy, is that guy?  Or was the original
>> seller succesful in selling this turd to a guy in Arizona, who is now trying
>> to get out from under it?
>>
>>
>>  One of the list members who was familiar with Long and Newman said
>> this wasn't even a authentic Long and Newman replica.
>>
>>     
>>>>> Now THAT is true.  This is pure kit-car junk, not L&N which was actually
>>>>>           
>> a quality piece.  This thing looks like a 3/4 scale Pantera, perhaps on a
>> Fiero floorpan?
>>
>>
>>  If you have a Cobra
>> kit car or a Ferrari kit car they do not display Ford or AC or Ferrari vin
>> tags .
>>
>>     
>>>>> Mine do.  And most of them that I've seen do too.  They don't display
>>>>>           
>> original NUMBERS, that would be deceptive.  But it's common practice to
>> stamp the correct, authentic VIN of the vehicle, on a reproduction of an
>> original tag.  I don't know why the owner of this car chose not to do so.
>>
>>
>>  If the Detomaso Vin tag t(with the number removed is an authentic
>> Detomaso tag salvaged from a wrecked car it is illegal to remove it and
>> place it on another car.
>>
>>     
>>>>> Okay, I'm just laughing now.
>>>>>           
>>  It is also fraudulent representation. You are
>> certainly entitiled to your opinion and I can't speak for this seller
>> because I have not communicated with him but the last seller was
>> intentionaly deceptive and a crook.
>>
>>     
>>>>> Probably true....
>>>>>           
>>  He evaded questions and gave deceptive
>> and evasive answers to questions about the true nature of this abortion on
>> wheels.
>>
>>     
>>>>> Now *that* is a highly accurate assessment! :>)
>>>>>           
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>