[DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content

Larry - Ohio Time Corp larry at ohiotimecorp.com
Fri Nov 20 17:15:57 EST 2009 

Hmmm...250 acres

Bill what are the squatter laws like in TX?

Larry (I can fix a Jeep) - Cleveland


-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Bill Lewis
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:36 PM
To: kenn_green at yahoo.com; pantdino at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com;
PANTERA-GrayGregory
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content


In 2005 we bought 250 acres next to our place - for two reasons.  One, it
was way underpriced, and two, EASY money at GREAT interest rates.  
     An interesting fact is that in 50 years of buying and selling real
estate, we have never had a "Lender" come to the closing.And, at the closing
of this land, the lender was there.  Aha, we found out why.  When I was
reading documents, the interest rate, that we had down in writing, was not
4.?%, but was closer to 6%.  I said this is incorrect, and showed out
committment letters.  Our mtg broker sat there quiet as a mouse, and finally
said that he made a mistake.  On and on, back and forth, it finally boiled
down to did we want to buy the property then or not at their new rate?  We
signed up for a "floating" interest loan, which was very low at that time.
After about two months I told my wife this is a mistake, and we re-did the
loan with a permanent rate.
     But, my point is that the broker and the lender both knew coming to the
closing what was up.  The mtg broker did not call me as soon as he knew he
couldn't deliver - heck, maybe he knew he never could.
     But, the good news is that all ended well!!!  We sold 86 of the acres.
We just planted 406 pine tree seedlings on the land, run a few head of
cattle, and are riding off into the sunset.     ---Bill Lewis





> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:24:39 -0800
> From: kenn_green at yahoo.com
> To: pantdino at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com; rgg at gregorycook.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> 
> But it was clear to me 3 years ago, clearly not hindsight.
>  
> In August 2008 I talked to the guy who handles my wife's trust, and
specifically said that I was sure the housing market was going to tank even
worse and asked if all the foreclosures could affect the stock market.  He
said NO, then came September.  I could not have been more specific.  To me
this isn't hindsight, it's the financial industry intentionally keep the
blinders on so they could keep making money up to the last minute.  
>  
> The senior partner in our firm is 77 and lost over a million in the past
year.  What kind of moron money manager would keep a 77 year olds money in a
volatile market?  Only one who makes a bigger commission that way.  
>  
> Ken
> 
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> To: "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, "pantdino at aol.com"
<pantdino at aol.com>, "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 7:09 PM
> 
> 
> Insanity is easy to spot in hindsight!
> 
> Gray
> 
> From: Ken Green [mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:16 PM
> To: pantdino at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com; Gray Gregory
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> 
> Gray,
> 
>     But people making seven figures are suppose to have a clue?  Three
years ago I was sure the housing market in California was ridiculously over
priced and there were ads on the radio every ten minutes for 100% low doc
loans.  I couldn't believe that it made any sense to make these loans.
Someone high up had to approve this, and I think they knew better than I did
what was coming and they didn't care because they got the big pay check and
could keep the big bucks when the market collapsed.  It had nothing to do
with euphoria, other than the buzz from gambling with millions of dollars,
it was all about GREED.  They didn't give a damn about whom they hurt.
> 
>     If there isn't, there should be a fiduciary duty to be sane in
investing other people's life savings.  If these people are that stupid,
they should make minimum wage, not a million a year.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> To: "pantdino at aol.com" <pantdino at aol.com>, "detomaso at realbig.com"
<detomaso at realbig.com>
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 4:39 PM
> The problem with putting people in jail is proving any crime was
committed. It's not against the law to make bad investments with your own
money or with other peoples as a professional money manager. You would have
to prove some kind of fraud and I honestly believe that just like with any
bubble most of these guys just got caught up in the euphoria and thought the
good times would go on and on. I'm sure there were a few that broke the law
and we will probably see some convictions but I think most of them just made
really bad mistakes.
> 
> What I don't understand about this whole thing is why the rating agencies
haven't caught more heat. IMO they deserve the lion's share of the blame
because they are the ones that made this whole thing possible by giving AAA
ratings to pools of subprime mortgages.
> 
> Gray
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
detomaso-bounces at realbig.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=de
tomaso-bounces at realbig.com>
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compo
se?to=detomaso-bounces at realbig.com>] On Behalf Of
pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.c
om>
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:57 PM
> To:
detomaso at realbig.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@r
ealbig.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> 
> 
> I dont' think the government was in on it at the time, but they sure
aren't very interested in punishing anyone.
> Seems like if you are rich enough you are above the law unless you really
distinguish yourself like Bernie Madoff.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Green
<kenn_green at yahoo.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kenn_gree
n at yahoo.com>>
> To:
pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.c
om>
> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 1:34 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jim,
> 
>     I agree, it's very hard to believe that they did not lie to investors.
Something really sinks about all of this.  Makes you think that they all
(government and business) were in on this.
> 
> Ken
> 
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09,
pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.c
om>
<pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.
com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> From:
pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.c
om>
<pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.
com>>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> To:
detomaso at realbig.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@r
ealbig.com>
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 1:22 PM
> 
> 
> 
> My feeling is that some people should go to jail.
> My understanding is that the grade BBB loans made to people with no proven
income were rebundled as AAA -rated instruments and sold to pension plans
and investors.
> 
> In my simple-minded thinking that is fraud and someone should go to jail.
> 
> Likewise the CEOs who walked away with hundreds of millions of dollars and
ruined the economy.  They knew what would happen. They should do time
> 
> Jim Oddie
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Green
<kenn_green at yahoo.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kenn_gree
n at yahoo.com>>
> To:
detomaso at realbig.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@r
ealbig.com>;
pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.c
om>
> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 1:00 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jim,
> 
>     It's easy to skim a very small percentage of a huge amount of money.
> 
>     The problem is that the system allowed people to place huge bets, and
leave the game with others holding the bag.  I doubt that the people who
lost millions in the last year had any idea that their "investments" were
being gambled to make or insure loans for over priced property bought by
people who clearly could not afford what they were buying.  The way it was
explained to me is that killer is that the FED loaned money to lenders and
the lenders loaned that money and exposed all of us to huge losses.
> 
> 
>     For example, I suspect that the president of Lehman Brothers had a
bonus program that paid him something like $500,000,000 over the past 9
years if he met certain goals.  The risks taken were not part of the
formula.  He conveniently ignored warnings that it wasn't a good idea to
guarantee loans that were almost certain to go into default.  I don't know
if he broke any laws, but what he did to make huge bucks probably destroyed
the financial security of millions of other Americans.  I'm sure the
hundreds of millions he made have helped him to live with what he did.
> 
>     I suspect that what happened could be explained to the nation (and
damn well should be) but the government is protecting someone.  If someone
else can explain what happened better, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 11/19/09,
pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.c
om>
<pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.
com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> From:
pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.c
om>
<pantdino at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pantdino@aol.
com>>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> To:
detomaso at realbig.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@r
ealbig.com>
> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 12:23 PM
> 
> 
> 
> "Down here that means that you
> work for what you have"
> 
> I'm just curious-- does the "working for what you have" idea apply to the
1000 Goldman Sachs employees who each got $1 Million "bonuses" this year?
Does everyone feel the work they do is so difficult and contributes so much
to society that that kind of money is justified?
> 
> My feeling is that just because people have figured out a legal scam to
make them rich does not mean it is OK.
> 
> Jim Oddie
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Lewis
<lotus0005 at hotmail.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lotus000
5 at hotmail.com>>
> To:
cuvee at sbcglobal.net<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cuvee@sbcgl
obal.net>;
detomaso at realbig.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@r
ealbig.com>
> Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 4:22 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> 
> 
> 
>     Curt, I am in Texas, and I only have one friend/acquaintance who
admits to
> eing a Democrat.  We are solid middle class.  Down here that means that
you
> ork for what you have, and don't want your money going to those who might
not
> hoose to work as hard.
>     My comment to my one Dem friend, Carl, is, why do I get hundreds of
email
> orwards that put down or make fun of the Dems, but so far he has only sent
me
> ne of the other.
>     I know the commentator won't let us go too far with this thread, but I
am
> eally confused about "who" is a Dem - they seem to be a strange crew of
> edfellows.  How can you be a serious Catholic and be Pro-chose?
>     And, as to Panteras, I have a question about wheels - 17's & 18's.
> --Bill
> 
> 
> > Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:26:53 -0800
> From:
cuvee at sbcglobal.net<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cuvee@sbcgl
obal.net>
> To:
detomaso at realbig.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@r
ealbig.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Very little Pantera content
> 
> OK... first let me say I'm not looking for a pissing match! I don't care
what
> ide of the fence your on.
> 
> Just asking a simple question....hows Pres. B.O.s Hope and Change working
for
> ou?
> 
> Working or Not Working?
> 
> Now the Pantera content...Hope and Change has cut my Pantera activity down
to
> lim and none.
> 
> Curt
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