[DeTomaso] Windsor Cleveland water pump difference?

[Asa Jay Laughton]

Windsor pumps do -not- fit the Cleveland.



Quoting Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>:

> Julian,
>  
>     Sorry, the Stewart pump is mechanical not electric, I just   
> mentioned the electric because the interface would be the same as   
> the Stewart Pro Series pump.  I've talked to Meziere and I   
> understood them to say that the same electric pump bolts to a   
> Cleveland or a Windsor, so I assme the water passages, and the   
> threaded holes just above and below the passages, are the same on a   
> Cleveland or a Windsor.
>  
>     The general question is if you mount a pump that only matches   
> the water passages, or connect lines from a remote pump as you have,  
>  to a Cleveland block, what does that do to the thermostat circuit.   
>  Looking at page 11 of John Taphorn's article:
>  
> http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/Pantera_Cooling-JTaphorn.pdf
>  
> a passage is blocked on the Cleveland water pump.  Is a Windsor   
> water pump, or an electric pump, or the Stewart pump, just a bolt on  
>  for John's mod because the passage John blocks is the difference   
> between a Cleveland and Windsor pump?
>  
> Ken
>
> --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Windsor Cleveland water pump difference?
> To: kenn_green at yahoo.com, "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>,   
> "Jack Deryke" <jderyke at aol.com>
> Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 9:45 AM
>
>
>
>
> By the look of it that's a mechanical pump, not electric? I'd be   
> surprised if it bolts up to a Cleveland block.
>  
> Most electric pumps in use on mid engine cars are remote pumps.   
> Personally I use the Meziere 55 gpm model, but I'm sure the Stewart   
> products are equally as good. I am currently 3/4 the way   
> through converting the GT40 and to keep it simple with t-stat,   
> by-pass and heater hoses I simply took a std water pump and sweated   
> the impeller off, removed the shaft, cut down the nose and welded a   
> plate over the end to create a plenum that functions as per oem   
> except the water velocity is coming from the remote mounted pump. No  
>  fitment issues or hose rerouting and it will allow me to have a   
> completely flat bulkhead now.
>  
> Davies, Craig also sell a pump controller that is a variable speed   
> controller + fan switch effectively acting like a t-stat to regulate  
>  at your desired set temperature. This combats the only  
> real negative  of a electric pump, i.e. fixed volume so it's not  
> running 55gpm at  idle and WOT.
>  
> Julian
>  
>> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:31:27 -0800
>> From: kenn_green at yahoo.com
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com; JDeRyke at aol.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Windsor Cleveland water pump difference?
>>
>> Jack,
>>  
>>     I have a Stewart Pro Series water pump that is shaped more like  
>>  the electric pumps than a standard Ford pump:
>>  
>> http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=STE14000&Category_Code=ProSeriesWaterPumps
>>  
>>     I'm guess that it will bolt up, but I'm not sure how the   
>> thermostat circuit comes into play.  I'm wondering if I do the   
>> remote thermostat as in John Taphorn's article, is there an issue?
>>  
>> Ken
>>
>> --- On Thu, 11/12/09, JDeRyke at aol.com <JDeRyke at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: JDeRyke at aol.com <JDeRyke at aol.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Windsor Cleveland water pump difference?
>> To: kenn_green at yahoo.com, detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 11:06 PM
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/12/09 4:40:40 PM, kenn_green at yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> > I noticed that the same electric pumps appear to be used on both Windsors
>> > and Clevelands.  Is the only difference in the stanard pumps related to
>> > the Cleveland thermostat?
>> >
>> The physical shape of the 351C and 351-W pumps are different requiring
>> different gaskets and bolt lengths. They can not interchange.   
>> Electric pumps on
>> the other hand are adapted units and thus CAN fit either block if you go to
>> the trouble of doing so. Some electric pumps don't even bolt to the engine
>> but are in-line on a water pipe or attach directly to the radiator, so what
>> block is used has no influence. I have little experience with electric water
>> pumps beyond having seen two in operation. Both were attached to 351-C
>> engines and both engines were in a mild state of tune, thus not   
>> generating much
>> extra heat. Good luck with this major adaption- J Deryke
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