[DeTomaso] WARNING: .050 may be the wrong kind of Bomb

[Dan Courtney]

Thank you Paul, that is great advice.
I cc'd the list so everyone can benefit from those detailed instrucions.
This is a new intake, an Edelbrock AirGap for the 2bbl heads, and I'm not 
sure if it has a cross-over.
An intake manifold leak is listed as one of the causes of broken spark 
plugs. I'll take a hard look for this next.
On my earlier post I mis-stated the other two pistons I have checked so far 
(#6 with a broken spark plug & #7, one of the six with still new looking 
plugs) are not "milk-chocolate" color, but rather a nice tan (as in a well 
poured Guiness black & tan). Even the top half of #5 (with shiny, tiny dots) 
is a nice tan.
I also reviewed the instructions for a compression test.
It's suggested to test while the engine is hot, and the metal expanded.
I tested while stone cold.
It also says to pull all eight plugs, to let it spin better, then do the 
test. I've been pulling, testing, then replacing one plug at a time, due to 
a prior funky test (years ago) where the compression was escaping to the 
adjacent cylinder due to a blown head gasket.
If I'm lucky this may have contributed to the "spotty" read on #5 and the 
low (150 psi) yet consistent readings on the other 7. Again, #5 showed 150 
psi the first night, then nada the second night, until receiving a little 
oil.
Back to it now, and then to the shop for a leak-down and second opinion on 
the borescope view.
Reno or (big) bust,
Dan


Dan F. Courtney

La Jolla, CA

(858) 551-5455 Phone
(858) 551-5456 Fax
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "P. Rimov" <rimov at charter.net>
To: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at excaliburre.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] WARNING: .050 may be the wrong kind of Bomb


> Morning Dan
>
> That's the way to stay positive. It valve damage has occurred the leak 
> down test will confirm it quite readily. Also if one of your pistons 
> kissed an open valve there would not be "little nicks" but rather on ugly 
> gash unless the valve broke off in which case major damage would be 
> readily apparent. You didn't say how the other pistons looked were there 
> was no spark plug issues. You know there may be no problem at  all with 
> the ring in #5 but just has not seated yet and you just need to put a few 
> more miles on the engine to get all the rings to seat fully. I know some 
> people using an abrasive like comet to help with the seating process and 
> you may want to post an Email on the forum about this as I am not very 
> familiar with this technique. Also I must implore you to pull the intake 
> and install new Felpro gaskets to rule out a vacuum leak. I am sure you 
> are competent with the task, but I have to tell you, I have found the 
> absolutely best way to install the intake gaskets is to do it in two 
> steps. The first is to place a very small bead of RTV sealer, the gray 
> stuff, around the intake ports and cross over port, place the gaskets on 
> the head, take a couple of pieces of masking tape and tape the gasket in 
> place then place so they will not shift with the next step. Next, install 
> the intake super carefully onto the gasket and install all the bolts and 
> just snug the bolts down maybe 10ft/lb and let set over night. Then next 
> morning, remove the intake and tape. If your intake and heads have the 
> exhaust cross ports and you are not using them for a choke then block the 
> exhaust ports with a thin piece of aluminum and RTV high temp gasket 
> sealer. You will need to cut the gasket around the exhaust cross over port 
> and fit the aluminum piece into the removed area and glue it in place when 
> you begin to install the intake. The next step is to place a small bead of 
> RTV around each port and a healthy bead on both ends of the block or a dap 
> at each corner if you are going to use the end gaskets, to each his own on 
> this one. Then carefully lower the intake onto the gaskets and torque down 
> the intake in the proper sequence. Once the intake is torque down check to 
> make sure you have a good seal between the block and intake ends and 
> remove or add RTV as necessary.
>
> Paul
>
> --- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at excaliburre.com>
> To: "P. Rimov" <rimov at charter.net>
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 10:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] WARNING: .050 may be the wrong kind of Bomb
>
>
>> Thanks Paul.
>> The motivation is very helpful.
>> Since the piston looks serviceable (I just sent an update) and if the 
>> rings hold up worst case may be pulling the head and having one valve 
>> replaced, which means I can still make Reno if I stay on it, which I plan 
>> to do.
>> Pulling a head is no big deal, I've done it in worse places (side of the 
>> road in Monterey, some bumf**k town on the way to Vegas).
>> I just don't want to pull the engine again. All the little, hard to get 
>> things wear me out.
>> I guess my main challenge will be seeing if I can get the rings to hold 
>> compression, without having to pump oil in. My fear is that either the 
>> pieces from the plug broke a ring or that the rings will not seat now.
>> It may not be too bad, as neither of the broken plugs were fouled. What's 
>> left of the electrodes are still shiny white. It's also not making any 
>> noise, like a broken ring should.
>> So, I'll try driving it to the shop tomorrow, and then take another look. 
>> If there are more nicks it's contact from a valve, but I doubt that. I 
>> think they were either caused by detonation, which I will eliminate, or 
>> the spark plug tip, which seems to be gone now.
>> Thanks for the encouragement, back to the garage now.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Dan F. Courtney
>>
>> La Jolla, CA
>>
>> (858) 551-5455 Phone
>> (858) 551-5456 Fax
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "P. Rimov" <rimov at charter.net>
>> To: "Dan Courtney" <dfcex at excaliburre.com>
>> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] WARNING: .050 may be the wrong kind of Bomb
>>
>>
>>> Evening Dan:
>>>
>>> Although the following may not provide any comfort for your 
>>> discouragement, enlighten you or rejuvenate your enthusiasm for your car 
>>> I wish to share the following with you.  I have owned our car for 12 
>>> years now and during that time frame I have had my share of 
>>> disappointments and frustrations. I have thrown way to much money into 
>>> this silly hobby car and have changed my thinking of what it should and 
>>> could be several times. I have laid awake nights up set at set backs or 
>>> trying to sort out a problem in my mind and have on several occasions 
>>> felt the best course to take is to sell the car and end my obsession 
>>> with the silly thing. It has ran far less than it has been under repair 
>>> or under going restoration and the 5.0 EFI engine swap was a complete 
>>> expensive flop that has prevented me from enjoying the car for the 
>>> better part of yes the last three years. I now have the original engine 
>>> back in the car with a Holley EFI throttle body and TFI from the 5.0 and 
>>> I am for the first time since I have owned it at total peace with the 
>>> car. It finally runs and rides the way I had envisioned it and I am just 
>>> so thrilled to have reached the pinnacle of ownership where I can 
>>> finally enjoy driving it, perform routine maintenance and wash and wax 
>>> the clear coat off of it. The car is truly one of the most unique cars 
>>> ever created and ownership provides the key to by far one of the best 
>>> car clubs I have ever know to exist and has been the catalyst of making 
>>> friend all over the world. The problems you are having with #5 are only 
>>> temporary. Have a glass of whine and enjoy all that you have learned and 
>>> enjoyed with the car a good year of enjoying the car are just around the 
>>> corner.
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>