[DeTomaso] [SPAM]Re: Now, how many of you have import marque cars sitting in your garages? (was: How can this happen in America)

Mon May 25 23:29:15 EDT 2009

There is some massive over simplification going on here.

GM and Chrysler are not going under just because of the Healthcare or
retirement packages, although they certainly compounded other problems.
Toyota, Honda and other foreign car makers employ thousands of Americans and
pay comfortable wages and healthcare/retirement.

This has been a 20 year problem of quality, design, fuel consumption, too
many brands, management, unions etc.  

I agree with much of what is said below by others but please don't act like
single payer healthcare or other government run programs is the answer.
Many of the citizens in the countries with socialized/single payer (whatever
you prefer to call it) have purchased supplemental private insurance to
actually insure that they will get Mammograms, dialysis, cataract surgery,
preferential emergency room care or just basic coverage for when their local
municipality runs out of funds.  They also know that cash speaks when
standing in front of a doctor that will be reimbursed by the government.
Being a healthcare consultant for 6 years with a specialty in government
reimbursement and rules I could go on forever talking about the lack of
development and intellectual investment when there is no real motivation for
process improvement or treatment innovation.  Don't get me wrong there is A
LOT that needs improvement but government employees deciding when, where, if
and how much treatment will occur is NOT the answer.

Some people think that this type of healthcare is free or even cheaper.
They think that it will make us more competitive with other countries
because our companies will no longer have to pay for healthcare.  Well who
the hell is paying for it? Check their corporate tax rates, individual tax
rates, unemployment rates, interest rates, inflation rates.  Check out how
many companies are willing to invest in new business startups in England,
France or other European countries.  When you do the research you will
understand why their unemployment is so high.

Any honest objective analysis of government healthcare and government
intervention in existing countries will scare the HELL out of people.
Unless you like really high taxes

Also, lots of non-union people retire early.  It's called fiscal discipline
and conservatism.  Not very sexy but it works.  It is called not relying on
the government/your family/your employer for your long term well being.  I
go to the lake with my 19 foot 1982 Sea Ray (owned since new) only to see
some twenty something pull in with a $100,000 rig with a twenty year loan,
probably living in a house with an upside down mortgage.

Sorry for the tirade but like I said in an earlier email I think we should
all learn to speak up even when our voice shakes.

Lynn, going back to my cabin to complete my manifesto 

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Robert Simpson
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:17 PM
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [SPAM]Re: Now, how many of you have import marque
cars sitting in your garages? (was: How can this happen in America)

To be honest, I think what I have in my garage is only a small part of the 
problem.  When GM and Chrysler take billions of dollars in taxpayers money 
and then GM announces they are going to move much of the manufacturing over 
seas, there is a problem.

The big three are international companies who's main concern is baseline 
profit and answering to shareholders.  The big three don't behave as one 
would think an "American" company should.  Should an "American" company make

cars in Mexico and Canada, import them to the US and then say "Buy 
American?"

Now GM is talking about having China build vehicles for export to the US to 
keep costs down and profits up, all with the assistance of OUR tax dollars 
and the tax dollars of our CHILDREN, GRAND-CHILDREN and GREAT GRAND 
CHILDREN.

Maybe we should focus on manufactures who employee Americans, manufacturers 
who provide a livable wage, health insurance and retirement. GM and Ford do 
emplyee Americans but Toyota, Volkswagen and BMW employee thousands of 
Americans too, I would rather support them, than a company running to China 
or a company building assembling cars in Mexico for sale here under the 
banner of GM or Ford.

My .02 cents.

Bob

3468
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <pantdino at aol.com>
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 6:36 PM
Subject: [SPAM]Re: [DeTomaso] Now, how many of you have import marque cars 
sitting in your garages? (was: How can this happen in America)

> That's my understanding, too.  No company can survive paying for full
> health care for its workers and its retirees, especially when they
> "retire" after 30 years.  A friend's brother retired at 52 with full
> health care for the rest of his life. How can they afford that? They
> can't, as we have now learned.
>
> Why should he be able to retire at 52 when the rest of us have to work
> until 65 or 67?
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>
> To: de tomaso digest <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Cc: fresnofinches at aol.com
> Sent: Mon, 25 May 2009 5:21 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Now, how many of you have import marque cars
> sitting in your garages? (was: How can this happen in America)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> i would prefer to buy a car (or anything, for that matter), from a
> company whose
> ceo's earn only 30 times what their employees make, instead of 300
> times.  ya, i
> am a pinko commie, remember?  so, while i happen to think, cars sold in
> america
> manufactured by companies who are based in america, do not compare, for
> the most
> part, to cars made by non-usa owned companies, i likely still wouldn't
> wanna buy
> them even if i thought they weren't bad deals.
>
> but, what is sinking the american auto industry isn't the fact that
> their ceo's
> are overpaid, or even the fact that their product isn't as good.  (way
> too many
> hillbillies in this country that will buy anything as long as it's made
> in the
> usa.)  ;~)  it's the fact that the commie pinko auto trade unions were
> able to
> demand and get healthcare & retirement packages for themselves.  the
> rest of the
> commie pinko industrialized world, (ya know:  france, germany, japan,
> canada -
> pinko places like that?), well those pinko places all have universal
> health
> care, so the companies there don't have to pick up the tab...  if the
> usa had
> commie pinko single-payer healthcare, gm & chrysler would still be
> stong &
> turning a profit...  making that dreck...  :>)
>
> ymmv,
>
> doug s.,
> '72 de tomaso panera
> '78 ducati darmah
> '85.5 alfa romeo gtv6 3.0
> '95 buell s2 (america, love it or leave it!  yeah!)
> '04 scion xb
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso