[DeTomaso] Remote oil filter setup
Garth Rodericks
garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
Tue May 5 12:03:42 EDT 2009
I like pre-oiler systems! I would wager that the majority of an engine's wear occurs in those
moments before the oiling system comes up to pressure - sans some other catastrophic
failure or neglect. A pre-oiler would limit such wear considerably, as well as provide an extra
measure of insurance against a sudden momentary loss of oil pressure in a hard high speed
turn, such as at a track event. I plan to put one on my car if there's any money left after the
engine build.
As for the filter system you're considering...
<<< Don't systems where the continued performance of an internal combustion
engine are
more critical (like aircraft) also use redundant systems? >>>
True, aircraft use redundant systems, but usually only critical systems such as ignition. I
don't remember if my friend's planes had dual oil filters or not. Anyway, you're not going to
fall out of the sky to your death if the 351C in your Pantera dies on the highway or at a track
event.
<<< Your point that enhanced filtering of the oil is not necessary does
not correlate with it
offering no benefit. >>>
I'm not suggesting there's "no" benefit, just that I think the benefit is so small it doesn't
warrant the risk and added complexity. I was considering a dual-filter system for my new
engine and decided against it when I realized that I will not live long enough to realize the
added longevity my engine might enjoy provided there's no other catastrophic failure from
from flogging it too hard. Again, just my opinion - bear in mind that I'm one of those
"slacker" bench racers Mad Dog likes to swat with a rolled up paper all the time. :)
<<< The system that I was
considering is not a redundant system . The first filter (that does
not
restrict oil flow) filters particulate that is 5 microns or larger, the
second bypass filter
which is restrictive (due to it"s smaller particle
tolerance) filters particulate over 1 micron. >>>
I like the premise of the system you proposed. Definitely better than the standard dual Fram filters.
<<< I suppose the question
of whether or not it provides a benefit is predicated on several
factors including the cost of your engine and the environment you are
operating in. >>>
Cost of the engine is a sunk cost, and arguable whether it matters or not. The rational
question is "what do you expect the dual filter to do for you?" What is the problem or
weakness it is supposed to solve or overcome?
- Premature engine/bearing wear and ultimate failure due to insufficient oil filtering?
- Reduced maintenance cost by doubling the time/mileage interval between oil chnages?
If the engine will go 100,000-200,000 miles without problematic bearing wear with an OEM
filter system, but you hope to make it go 400,000 miles, then great!
If you want to reduce the number of oil changes, be aware that contamination by dirt is only
one small reason oil is changed regularly. Combustion by-products cause the development
of acids in the oil, which filtration does not remove. These acids contribute to the breakdown
of the oil and accelerated wear on the engine. Only an oil change will remove these acids.
<<< In either case I don't think it would cause harm unless
you had a failure in an external
line. And while you undoubtedly have
a greater chance of losing oil by adding an external
component to the
oil system you also theoretically give your self a little more time to
react
to a catastrophic loss of oil pressure if you have a larger oil
reserve ( an external dual filter
system would add a quart and a pre
oiler could add up to three additional quarts) and a
good oil pressure
gauge and oil temp gauge could help by alerting you in time to shut
down
before irreparable damage were done. >>>
Agreed. Although, I'd hate for such a failure to be the result of the external oil filter line
rupturing - the solution becomming the cause of the problem.
Above all, this is merely MY OPINION, nothing more. Only conjecture; not proven with any
scientific study, facts or otherwise. And it's only worth what you paid for it. It's your car and
you need to do what makes you happy.
Cheers!
Garth
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Remote oil filter setup
To: garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 5:36 PM
What is your opinion on pre-oiler systems? They don't come standard on any motor vehicle that I know of yet I believe they are fairly common on aircraft? Don't systems where the continued performance of an internal combustion engine are more critical (like aircraft) also use redundant systems? Your point that enhanced filtering of the oil is not necessary does not correlate with it offering no benefit. The system that I was considering is not a redundant system . The first filter (that does not restrict oil flow) filters particulate that is 5 microns or larger, the second bypass filter which is restrictive (due to it"s smaller particle tolerance) filters particulate over 1 micron. I suppose the question of whether or not it provides a benefit is predicated on several factors including the cost of your engine and the environment you are operating in. In either case I don't think it would cause harm unless you had a failure in an external
line . And while you undoubtedly have a greater chance of losing oil by adding an external component to the oil system you also theoretically give your self a little more time to react to a catastrophic loss of oil pressure if you have a larger oil reserve ( an external dual filter system would add a quart and a pre oiler could add up to three additional quarts) and a good oil pressure gauge and oil temp gauge could help by alerting you in time to shut down before irreparable damage were done.
Boyd
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
My 2-cents, and it's only worth about that, is that all gasoline powered production
automobiles currently being produced come with only ONE oil filter. Yet, they all offer
anywhere from 50,000-100,000 mile warranties. Some don't even call for a tuneup until
100,000 miles.
Anyway, oil and filters should be changed every 3,000-6,000 miles (always err on the side
of conservatism - doesn't hurt anything to change it too frequently). I've torn down late
model OEM engines which showed nary any wear on bearing surfaces after
120,000-150,000 miles. This is the result of regular and frequent oil changes.
So why would you want two filters? To extend/double the interval between oil changes? If
it's a redundant system (two identical filters inline) the first filter will catch most of the
contaminants and begin to
restrict flow to the second filter and subsequently the engine. I
suppose if the first filter has a bypass valve, which most do, then the second filter can
catch whatever bypassed the first filter. But it seems like a lot of unnecessary complexity,
as others have already stated.
I would merely use a filter without a bypass valve and change the oil regularly. Or for added peace of mind if you're concerned that the filter is getting "full" and losing it's flow/filtering capacity, change your oil every 3,000 miles and change the filter at 1,500 mile intervals so it's only in service for half the time/mileage between oil changes.
YMMV!
Garth
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