[DeTomaso] Remote oil filter setup

Garth Rodericks garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
Tue May 5 12:03:42 EDT 2009


I like pre-oiler systems!  I would wager that the majority of an engine's wear occurs in those 
moments before the oiling system comes up to pressure - sans some other catastrophic 
failure or neglect. A pre-oiler would limit such wear considerably, as well as provide an extra 
measure of insurance against a sudden momentary loss of oil pressure in a hard high speed 
turn, such as at a track event. I plan to put one on my car if there's any money left after the 
engine build.

As for the filter system you're considering...

<<< Don't systems where the continued performance of an internal combustion
engine are 
more critical (like aircraft) also use redundant systems? >>>

True, aircraft use redundant systems, but usually only critical systems such as ignition.  I 
don't remember if my friend's planes had dual oil filters or not. Anyway, you're not going to 
fall out of the sky to your death if the 351C in your Pantera dies on the highway or at a track 
event.

<<< Your point that enhanced filtering of the oil  is not necessary does
not correlate with it 
offering no benefit. >>>

I'm not suggesting there's "no" benefit, just that I think the benefit is so small it doesn't 
warrant the risk and added complexity. I was considering a dual-filter system for my new 
engine and decided against it when I realized that I will not live long enough to realize the 
added longevity my engine might enjoy provided there's no other catastrophic failure from 
from flogging it too hard. Again, just my opinion - bear in mind that I'm one of those 
"slacker" bench racers Mad Dog likes to swat with a rolled up paper all the time.  :)

<<< The system that I was
considering is not a redundant system . The first filter (that does 
not
restrict oil flow) filters particulate that is 5 microns or larger, the
second bypass filter 
which is restrictive (due to it"s smaller particle
tolerance) filters particulate over 1 micron. >>>

I like the premise of the system you proposed. Definitely better than the standard dual Fram filters.

<<< I suppose the question
of whether or not it provides a benefit is predicated on several

factors including the cost of your engine and the environment you are
operating in. >>>

Cost of the engine is a sunk cost, and arguable whether it matters or not. The rational 
question is "what do you expect the dual filter to do for you?"  What is the problem or 
weakness it is supposed to solve or overcome?
- Premature engine/bearing wear and ultimate failure due to insufficient oil filtering?
- Reduced maintenance cost by doubling the time/mileage interval between oil chnages?

If the engine will go 100,000-200,000 miles without problematic bearing wear with an OEM 
filter system, but you hope to make it go 400,000 miles, then great!

If you want to reduce the number of oil changes, be aware that contamination by dirt is only 
one small reason oil is changed regularly. Combustion by-products cause the development 
of acids in the oil, which filtration does not remove. These acids contribute to the breakdown 
of the oil and accelerated wear on the engine. Only an oil change will remove these acids.

<<< In either case I don't think it would cause harm unless
you had a failure in an external 
line. And while you undoubtedly have
a greater chance of losing oil by adding an external 
component to the
oil system you also theoretically give your self a little more time to
react 
to a catastrophic loss of oil pressure if you have a larger oil
 reserve ( an external dual filter 
system would add a quart and a pre
oiler could add up to three additional  quarts) and a 
good oil pressure
gauge and oil temp gauge could help by alerting you in time to shut
down 
before irreparable damage were done. >>>

Agreed. Although, I'd hate for such a failure to be the result of the external oil filter line 
rupturing - the solution becomming the cause of the problem.

Above all, this is merely MY OPINION, nothing more. Only conjecture; not proven with any 
scientific study, facts or otherwise. And it's only worth what you paid for it.  It's your car and 
you need to do what makes you happy.

Cheers!
Garth


--- On Mon, 5/4/09, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Remote oil filter setup
To: garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 5:36 PM

What is your opinion on pre-oiler systems? They don't come standard on any motor vehicle that I know of  yet I believe they are fairly common on aircraft? Don't systems where the continued performance of an internal combustion engine are more critical (like aircraft) also  use redundant systems? Your point that enhanced filtering of the oil  is not necessary does not  correlate with it offering no benefit. The system that I was considering is not a redundant system . The first filter (that does not restrict oil flow) filters particulate that is 5 microns or larger, the second bypass filter which is restrictive (due to it"s smaller particle tolerance) filters particulate over 1 micron. I suppose the question of whether or not it provides a benefit is predicated on several factors including the cost of your engine and the environment you are operating in. In either case I don't think it would cause harm unless you had a failure in an external
 line . And while you undoubtedly have a greater chance of losing oil by adding an external component to the oil system you also theoretically give your self a little more time to react to a catastrophic loss of oil pressure if you have a larger oil  reserve ( an external dual filter system would add a quart and a pre oiler could add up to three additional  quarts) and a good oil pressure gauge and oil temp gauge could help by alerting you in time to shut down before irreparable damage were done.
Boyd
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:

My 2-cents, and it's only worth about that, is that all gasoline powered production 
automobiles currently being produced come with only ONE oil filter. Yet, they all offer 

anywhere from 50,000-100,000 mile warranties.  Some don't even call for a tuneup until 
100,000 miles.  

Anyway, oil and filters should be changed every 3,000-6,000 miles (always err on the side 
of conservatism - doesn't hurt anything to change it too frequently). I've torn down late 

model OEM engines which showed nary any wear on bearing surfaces after 
120,000-150,000 miles. This is the result of regular and frequent oil changes.

So why would you want two filters? To extend/double the interval between oil changes? If 

it's a redundant system (two identical filters inline) the first filter will catch most of the 
contaminants and begin to
 restrict flow to the second filter and subsequently the engine. I 
suppose if the first filter has a bypass valve, which most do, then the second filter can 
catch whatever bypassed the first filter. But it seems like a lot of unnecessary complexity, 

as others have already stated.

I would merely use a filter without a bypass valve and change the oil regularly. Or for added peace of mind if you're concerned that the filter is getting "full" and losing it's flow/filtering capacity, change your oil every 3,000 miles and change the filter at 1,500 mile intervals so it's only in service for half the time/mileage between oil changes.


YMMV!
Garth




      




      


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