[DeTomaso] Dog Bone (B & M) air cleaner

Tue Mar 10 10:29:21 EDT 2009

"If all else fails, manipulate the data."

I've never been able to make that work.  On the new truck motor my  
buddy John says there is no need to (for the sake of brevity) make an  
ignition modification.  Just for fun, I made the modification  
(suggested by someone that knows WAY more than I know about tuning)  
and guess what?  Runs better, starts better. I'm convinced.  In  
theory, I suppose it should run correctly w/ the factory equipment. [1]

Test, document, verify.  or go for the bling?

Yeah, coffee and no snow - I'd like to try that!

In an effort to keep the high cost of medicine under control, I should  
go to work.

later.

[1] When I worked for the Nazis at BMW (if you take a moment of  
silence for Hitler's birthday, you are a Nazi. Sorry.) we we having  
issues with fouling plugs.  I suggested switching brands from Bosch to  
NGK (wider heat range).  "Here, Daife . . .  BMW spends millions on  
R&D every year.  Do you think you can make these cars run better with  
for-shisa japanese plugs?"  Well, crap  . . .it worked for me.

Quoting Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>:

> I suppose so...
>
> Unless, as many engineers are aware, you want to subscribe to the adage that
> 'any pet theory can be proven time and time again by selecting the 'correct'
> data'....
>
> John has run his 'dogbone' for years on his yellow car. It's a darned fast
> car.
> He always wanted to have his 'monster stroker' take on my 'mini-stroker'.
> :-)
>
> No snow here.... a balmy 72F (that's 22C to the rest of the world...)
>
> I've had my coffee now... second cup in hand. Feeling better....
> :-)
>
> Kirby
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:58 AM, <adin at frontier.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Kirby, and all . . .
>>
>> It seems different folks get different results.  I do remember someone
>> trying multiple filter elements and not changing the results. (possibly in
>> error, but my feeble mind "remembers" this).  If the filter elements don't
>> change the results then I have deducted that the sharp turn for the airflow
>> is the problem.
>> In addition, someone has stated the need to run a spacer to alleviate the
>> problem.
>>
>> Since I have no dog in this fight, no horse in this race, and no engine
>> cover . . . . it don't matter beans to me.  I do stand my beliefs in not
>> restricting air flow but guess I don't know much about dog bones.
>>
>> If you had some fresh snow to shovel you wouldn't be so fiesty!!!!
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>>
>> Quoting Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>:
>>
>>  I will now butt in here and reinforce Will's statement about this dogbone
>>> air filter song and dance/dog and pony show.
>>>
>>> As he said, this subject comes up time and time again here on the forum,
>>> gets beat to death, and nobody wants to remember the actual, numbers are
>>> there, why aren't we paying attention to them, dyno testing that Space
>>> City
>>> Panteras did with the dogbone?
>>>
>>> John Taphorn has reported on this many times. The 'dogbone' did not hurt
>>> at
>>> all. Sharp turn included.
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm feeling feisty this morning. Let's ignore the facts and keep
>>> talking!
>>> Sigh...
>>>
>>> Kirby
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:14 AM, <adin at frontier.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jack, and all . . .
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the flow is not the filtration, but the sharp turn the air must
>>>> make.  Haven't we seen folks double up the filters (both sides 2x
>>>> elements)???
>>>>
>>>> As far as airflow is concerned: one cannot have tooo much.  this has
>>>> been demonstrated with the supercharged toyota (have you cut your
>>>> airbox, Jack?), the Kirkham w/ webers and now the 460 powered truck
>>>> (with 5" of vacuum it is a little sensitive to tuning).
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I'd let the motor breathe rather than have a cool engine
>>>> cover - just my OPINION.
>>>>
>>>> thanks for the note.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quoting JDeRyke at aol.com:
>>>>
>>>> > In a message dated 3/9/09 5:33:25 PM, adin at frontier.net writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Seems there was some question about the flow with these puppies . . .
>>>> >>
>>>> > Thats a question that's come up repeatedly in the last 10-12 years,
>>>> David,
>>>> > and the flow restriction is not the reuseable K & N filters on the
>>>> ends.
>>>> It
>>>> > seems to be the 90 degree turn from the plenum between the two side
>>>> > filters to the
>>>> > carb throat(s). If the inside of of the plenum is too close to the carb
>>>> top,
>>>> > the turn is too sharp and airflow will be restricted. Some are and some
>>>> > aren't, according to their owners, and a lot of the flow restriction
>>>> >  will only occur
>>>> > at higher rpms. I've seen at least one type that needed a 3/4" high
>>>> spacer to
>>>> > allow 5500 rpms in one Pantera. If you drive sedately, any dogbone will
>>>> work
>>>> > just fine.   Besides this possibility, the B&M at least is a heavy
>>>> > cast-aluminum unit weighing over 8 lbs, with the weight about as
>>>> > high-mounted as
>>>> > possible. For comparison, a 14" Moroso air cleaner with
>>>> > sheet-aluminum top & bottoms
>>>> > weighs 1-1/2 lbs and has more filter area.... if you can make it fit.
>>>> FWIW- J
>>>> > DeRyke
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > **************
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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