[DeTomaso] Busted Big, but Reno anyway? - cams and oil with ZDDP - LONG
asajay at asajay.com
asajay at asajay.com
Fri Jun 12 13:01:14 EDT 2009
Here is what I wrote about Amsoil a couple months ago:
http://www.realbig.com/pipermail/detomaso/2009-March/106456.html
There are two specific products I am using, one is a racing oil, the
other is not. Both have high levels of ZDDP. Please refer to the
links in the email linked above.
Asa Jay
Quoting Barry Seib <oldwheel at mts.net>:
> Guys
>
> I have researched this lately and here's what I think I know:
>
> If the oil you are buying has an API designation "SM" you should NOT use it
> in any flat tappet engine. It probably isn't real good for old style rocker
> arms and wrist pins either, but it is perfect for catalytic convertors.
>
> API designation "SL" is NOT much better and I wouldn't use it in any flat
> tappet engine either. If either of these designations appear on the oil you
> are considering, whether it's diesel oil, synthetic oil or both, I think you
> are taking a serious risk of premature failure.
>
> There are other choices:
>
> Brad Penn oil is specifically designed for our type of engines WITH lots of
> ZDDP. It has NO API SL or SM rating and is not recommended for catalytic
> convertors. This is the old "green oil" from the Bradford Penn. refinery
> that used to belong to Kendall Racing Oil. The Kendall name was sold to
> another oil company quite a while ago. Brad Penn bought the refinery and
> still proces the "green oil". I have begun importing it in quantity to
> Canada from the US from Brad Penn. If you guys want to put a group buy
> together, I'll try to help facilitate that with contacts in the US. There
> are guys selling Brad Penn racing oil on ebay too.
>
> Motorcycle oil is available in 20w-50 from Castrol and others Motorcycle
> does not require a current API designation (...yet ?), so probably still has
> lots of ZDDP. I have seen them advertising it as meeting API SE or SG. These
> are old API designations which were suited to our clevelands.
>
> I'm told that Aviation oil contains excellent additives including ZDDP, but
> I'm not sure about the detergent and dispersant part of the formula, etc. in
> car engines. We probably have some oil chemists or engineers on the list who
> could comment on that.
>
> Valvoline, Pennzoil, Quaker State, Castrol and others used to make good
> racing oil that was good lots of ZDDP, but I don't see it around here
> recently very much. IF the current product has an API of SL or SM, I
> wouldn't use it in older engines.
>
> I'm told Amsoil makes a 20w-50 synthetic with adequate ZDDP in it, but you
> must be very certain to get their racing oil that has the ZDDP load in it. I
> don't think most of their other current product does.
>
> As a last resort, you can buy GM "EOS" or ZDDP additive and add it to the
> modern API SL or SM oil.
>
> None of this applies to modern engines with catalytic convertors of course.
>
> I wouldn't think it wise to use API SM oil in any race car engine, no matter
> what age it is.
>
> Diesel engine oil has also changed in the last year or two. They are putting
> cats on them now too. Last time I bought some diesel oil, I got it home and
> found an API "SL" on it. I'm using it up in the grocery getter.
>
> Looking forward to other opinions on this subject.
>
> Barry
> (up to my ears in good engine oil)
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
> Were you using Mobil 1 for gas, or for diesel?
>
> I just bought 8 liters of Mobil 1 for diesel engines, based on discussions
> here, but without any real data of zddp content of that mix...
>
> Charles McCall
> 1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375
> "Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe"
> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> En
> nombre de Thomas Tornblom
> Enviado el: viernes, 12 de junio de 2009 7:52
> Para: Dan Courtney
> CC: detomaso at realbig.com
> Asunto: Re: [DeTomaso] Busted Big, but Reno anyway?
>
> I installed a hydraulic roller after wiping #5 intake in Italy 2004.
>
> The Crane flat tappet hydraulic cam I had was installed in 2001 and had
> survived a trip to France, but with just the outer valve springs
> installed. When I pulled the heads to install hard exhaust seats I
> installed the inner springs as well, and that might have been too much
> for the modern formula Mobil 1 I use.
>
> I doubt I will ever install a flat tappet cam again.
>
> Thomas
>
> Dan Courtney skrev:
>> Dan,
>>
>> Turns it WAS a brand new Crower cam and lifters.
>> I've been having so many engines re-built I'm losing track.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Dan F. Courtney
>>
>> La Jolla, CA
>>
>> (858) 551-5455 Phone
>> (858) 551-5456 Fax
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Daniel Miller
>> To: Dan Courtney
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Busted Big, but Reno anyway?
>>
>>
>> Dan, Just FYI. No matter what anyone ever tells you, don't re-use a
> cam. Always pony up for a new cam. My 2 cents. Dan Miller.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>> From: Dan Courtney <dfcex at pacbell.net>
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:39:03 AM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Busted Big, but Reno anyway?
>>
>> So I wrenched on The Winged Warrior till 4AM Monday and 5AM Tuesday,
> reviewed and improved allot of stuff, but it was still missing on at least
> one cylinder.
>> So I towed it to the engine shop disassembled, so they could inspect the
> gaskets for signs of leaking, get a better borescope view, etc.
>> Everything checked out till we started it, then found out it was cold on
> #2 (the cylinder with plugs that kept fouling).
>> Turns out the intake lobe on the cam went flat. It was re-used from the
> previous engine, after being profiled and inspected (by a well known local
> cam manufacturer).
>> The builder says there's bound to be metal in the pan, so now, after
> only 700 miles and one adventurous this new engine, and finally getting the
> installation PERFECT, it's gotta come out again, for the fifth time in six
> years.
>> There are times when you just feel the universe is in alignment to make
> sure you can't get behind the wheel of a Pantera.
>>
>>
>> Dan F. Courtney
>>
>> La Jolla, CA
>>
>> (858) 551-5455 Phone
>> (858) 551-5456 Fax
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>
>
> --
> Real life: Thomas Törnblom Email: Thomas.Tornblom at Hax.SE
> Snail mail: Banvallsvägen 14 Phone: +46 18 444 33 21
> S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Cellular: +46 70 261 1372
>
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