[DeTomaso] Busted Big, but Reno anyway? - cams and oil with ZDDP - LONG
Barry Seib
oldwheel at mts.net
Fri Jun 12 12:46:33 EDT 2009
Guys
I have researched this lately and here's what I think I know:
If the oil you are buying has an API designation "SM" you should NOT use it
in any flat tappet engine. It probably isn't real good for old style rocker
arms and wrist pins either, but it is perfect for catalytic convertors.
API designation "SL" is NOT much better and I wouldn't use it in any flat
tappet engine either. If either of these designations appear on the oil you
are considering, whether it's diesel oil, synthetic oil or both, I think you
are taking a serious risk of premature failure.
There are other choices:
Brad Penn oil is specifically designed for our type of engines WITH lots of
ZDDP. It has NO API SL or SM rating and is not recommended for catalytic
convertors. This is the old "green oil" from the Bradford Penn. refinery
that used to belong to Kendall Racing Oil. The Kendall name was sold to
another oil company quite a while ago. Brad Penn bought the refinery and
still proces the "green oil". I have begun importing it in quantity to
Canada from the US from Brad Penn. If you guys want to put a group buy
together, I'll try to help facilitate that with contacts in the US. There
are guys selling Brad Penn racing oil on ebay too.
Motorcycle oil is available in 20w-50 from Castrol and others Motorcycle
does not require a current API designation (...yet ?), so probably still has
lots of ZDDP. I have seen them advertising it as meeting API SE or SG. These
are old API designations which were suited to our clevelands.
I'm told that Aviation oil contains excellent additives including ZDDP, but
I'm not sure about the detergent and dispersant part of the formula, etc. in
car engines. We probably have some oil chemists or engineers on the list who
could comment on that.
Valvoline, Pennzoil, Quaker State, Castrol and others used to make good
racing oil that was good lots of ZDDP, but I don't see it around here
recently very much. IF the current product has an API of SL or SM, I
wouldn't use it in older engines.
I'm told Amsoil makes a 20w-50 synthetic with adequate ZDDP in it, but you
must be very certain to get their racing oil that has the ZDDP load in it. I
don't think most of their other current product does.
As a last resort, you can buy GM "EOS" or ZDDP additive and add it to the
modern API SL or SM oil.
None of this applies to modern engines with catalytic convertors of course.
I wouldn't think it wise to use API SM oil in any race car engine, no matter
what age it is.
Diesel engine oil has also changed in the last year or two. They are putting
cats on them now too. Last time I bought some diesel oil, I got it home and
found an API "SL" on it. I'm using it up in the grocery getter.
Looking forward to other opinions on this subject.
Barry
(up to my ears in good engine oil)
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Were you using Mobil 1 for gas, or for diesel?
I just bought 8 liters of Mobil 1 for diesel engines, based on discussions
here, but without any real data of zddp content of that mix...
Charles McCall
1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375
"Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe"
http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
-----Mensaje original-----
De: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
En
nombre de Thomas Tornblom
Enviado el: viernes, 12 de junio de 2009 7:52
Para: Dan Courtney
CC: detomaso at realbig.com
Asunto: Re: [DeTomaso] Busted Big, but Reno anyway?
I installed a hydraulic roller after wiping #5 intake in Italy 2004.
The Crane flat tappet hydraulic cam I had was installed in 2001 and had
survived a trip to France, but with just the outer valve springs
installed. When I pulled the heads to install hard exhaust seats I
installed the inner springs as well, and that might have been too much
for the modern formula Mobil 1 I use.
I doubt I will ever install a flat tappet cam again.
Thomas
Dan Courtney skrev:
> Dan,
>
> Turns it WAS a brand new Crower cam and lifters.
> I've been having so many engines re-built I'm losing track.
>
> Dan
>
> Dan F. Courtney
>
> La Jolla, CA
>
> (858) 551-5455 Phone
> (858) 551-5456 Fax
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel Miller
> To: Dan Courtney
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Busted Big, but Reno anyway?
>
>
> Dan, Just FYI. No matter what anyone ever tells you, don't re-use a
cam. Always pony up for a new cam. My 2 cents. Dan Miller.
>
>
>
>
>
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> From: Dan Courtney <dfcex at pacbell.net>
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:39:03 AM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Busted Big, but Reno anyway?
>
> So I wrenched on The Winged Warrior till 4AM Monday and 5AM Tuesday,
reviewed and improved allot of stuff, but it was still missing on at least
one cylinder.
> So I towed it to the engine shop disassembled, so they could inspect the
gaskets for signs of leaking, get a better borescope view, etc.
> Everything checked out till we started it, then found out it was cold on
#2 (the cylinder with plugs that kept fouling).
> Turns out the intake lobe on the cam went flat. It was re-used from the
previous engine, after being profiled and inspected (by a well known local
cam manufacturer).
> The builder says there's bound to be metal in the pan, so now, after
only 700 miles and one adventurous this new engine, and finally getting the
installation PERFECT, it's gotta come out again, for the fifth time in six
years.
> There are times when you just feel the universe is in alignment to make
sure you can't get behind the wheel of a Pantera.
>
>
> Dan F. Courtney
>
> La Jolla, CA
>
> (858) 551-5455 Phone
> (858) 551-5456 Fax
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--
Real life: Thomas Törnblom Email: Thomas.Tornblom at Hax.SE
Snail mail: Banvallsvägen 14 Phone: +46 18 444 33 21
S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Cellular: +46 70 261 1372
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