[DeTomaso] rear suspension survey

[MikeLDrew at aol.com]

In a message dated 7/30/09 8 44 19, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:


> Greetings fellow Panterians!
> I am interested in members experience with modifications to the rear
> suspension on their Panteras. More specifically has anyone developed or 
> know
> of a replacement for the roller bearings in the rear uprights.  I know 
> Dick
> Koch developed a modification using Timken roller bearings in 2000 but it
> apparently wasn't picked up as a popular modification.
> 
Although Dick (and Jack DeRyke) did this as a DIY project, Dennis Quella 
(Pantera Performance Center) and Marino Perna (Pantera East) had been 
performing this modification for many years prior to that.   This was in response to 
the problem that develops with the stock setup, whereby the axle wears 
where the bearing touches it, slop is introduced, and bad things happen from 
there.

The Timkin bearing setup is elegant and very effective but also very 
expensive.   Only after I had the work performed to my uprights (in 1992) did I 
discover an intermediate solution that is certainly better than stock, and 
arguably more than good enough, at a fraction of the cost.   It's possible to 
buy a double-roller inner bearing, which almost doubles the surface area 
where the bearing touches the axle.   Intuitively you can see how much better 
that setup is, and the cost delta is almost nil versus just replacing the 
bearings with standard replacements.

By total coincidence I just published an article on this modification which 
appears in this month's PCNC newsletter, available online here:

http://www.panteraclubnorcal.com/articles/News0907.pdf

The article is on pages 8-9.


> > What is the consensus
> on the efficacy of the roller bearing  in this application?
> 
>>>Although the tapered roller bearing conversion is arguably the best 
solution, the double-roller setup probably gives you 90% of the efficacy for 20% 
of the cost.


>  How many people
> have converted to CV joints and who's modification did you use? Did you
> switch because of the need for  a more efficient transfer of power to the
> rear wheels or to simplify the rear wheel bearing  or rotor replacement or
> for some other reason?
> 
>>>Let's be real--people switch for the bling. :>)

Although people talk about the theoretical advantages of CV joints, in 
reality the CV setups (by the time you include all the adapters etc.) weigh just 
about the same as the standard driveshafts.   I've driven CV-equipped 
Panteras, and from behind the wheel it's impossible to tell any difference at 
all.

It's all about the bling. :>)


>  And lastly how many people have replaced components
> like A arms or up rights with Aluminum replacements? Did you change for
> looks, weight savings, improved  ability to adjust  the rear suspension , 
> or
> for some other reasons?. 
> 
>>>My car's lower rear A-arms were rusted and busted.   In the pre-internet 
days, it wasn't possible to find replacements just lying around (although 
for sure they were out there somewhere).   At the time, two Pantera vendors 
(Hall Pantera and Panteras by Wilkinson) sold billet aluminum A-arm packages. 
  Only Wilkinson was willing to have just a pair of lower A-arms made for 
me.   I opted for that solution because they were actually cheaper than stock 
A-arms (I couldn't find any used ones, and the new price was through the 
roof), and I believed they would be superior.

In fact, aluminum A-arms are ALL about the bling.   They are THREE TIMES 
heavier than the stock ones!!!!   (At least the lower rears are, the ones I 
bought).   Sure, they look nice, but that's a lot of unnecessary weight just 
where you don't want it.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably buy fabricated A-arms from 
Dennis Quella.   He has a shop that makes terrific, strong replacements out 
of lightweight chromemoly steel.   No bling (unless you chrome them), but 
much strength and light weight.

Hall used to sell aluminum hub carriers that were substantially lighter 
than the cast-iron factory ones.   And Pat Mical offered (for a short time) 
absolutely beautiful hub carriers made of magnesium!   Reportedly they were of 
sufficient strength, and they were super-light!   But they came at a 
heart-stopping price!


> This is not a formal survey I am just trying to get
> a feel for other owners feelings and experiences with this part of the car
> and where it stands in the hierarchy of modifications based on importance
> and the  benefit / cost  analysis of this type of modification.
> 
>>>I would only urge a change if you actually had to, as in my case where 
my A-arms were rusted and one was literally broken.   If your stock 
components are in good shape, I would definitely leave them alone (although if you 
have to replace the axles/bearings, I think the double bearing setup is the 
way to go).

Mike



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