[DeTomaso] Fw: twin turbo pantera on ebay

Curt Hall cuvee at sbcglobal.net
Tue Jul 14 22:38:46 EDT 2009


Sorry Boyd...Even fuel will freeze if gets that cold! LOL 

--- On Tue, 7/14/09, Will Demelo <wdemelo at cogeco.ca> wrote:


From: Will Demelo <wdemelo at cogeco.ca>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw: twin turbo pantera on ebay
To: "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>, michaelsavga at gmail.com
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 7:01 PM


BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
To: <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw: twin turbo pantera on ebay


> That gives me a great idea. I could coil my fuel line into a series of 8"
> circles and put it in a cushion. Then I could get my ex girl friend to sit
> on it. That would give me the coldest fuel  on the planet ( short of LOX )
> Now if I could only get her to sit still and keep her mouth shut. The big
> mouth would create so much drag  I'm afraid any increase in horse power
> would be lost to additional drag!Boyd
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 8:43 PM, <michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: michaelsavga at gmail.com
>>
>> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:18:00
>> To: Dan Mixon<tipo874 at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>>
>>
>> I used to be the kid sent to the concession stand to get ice for my dads
>> drag car for the cool can.    Michael Shortt
>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:   "Dan Mixon" <tipo874 at comcast.net>
>>
>> Date:   Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:00:32
>> To: <wkooiman at earthlink.net>; 'Ken Green'<kenn_green at yahoo.com>; <
>> detomaso at realbig.com>; 'Tomas Gunnarsson'<guson at home.se>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>>
>>
>> The Buick Special and Olds F-85 Cutlass used a 215 cu in aluminum V-8 in
>> 1961, 1962 and 1963. The engine was available in the Pontiac Tempest in
>> 1961
>> and 1962. In 1962 the Olds F-85 4 bbl version could be optioned with a
>> turbo
>> charger. The 5 psi boost turbo charged "Jetfire" bumped the horsepower 
>> from
>> 185 to 215. It used "Turbo Rocket Fluid", a 50/50 mixture of distilled
>> water
>> and methyl alcohol, injected during boost to suppress detonation. The 
>> turbo
>> engine was unreliable from an owner's standpoint. They would forget to 
>> add
>> the "Turbo Rocket Fluid" and detonate the engine to death or would use
>> faucet water and clog the injector nozzles and detonate the engine to
>> death.
>> GM sold the rights to the engine to Rover in 1965. The engine was used in
>> quite a few British cars and is still used in the Land Rover.
>>
>> One of the tricks used by drag racers in the '60's was to use a fuel line
>> coiled in a can right before the carb. Ice would be added to the can to
>> cool
>> the fuel.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of wkooiman at earthlink.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 17:32
>> To: Ken Green; detomaso at realbig.com; Tomas Gunnarsson
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>>
>> I've thought the same thing - about getting more airflow by
>> cooling/compressing the air in the intake.  For non-turbo/supercharged
>> engines, there's probably very little to gain - especially since the 
>> water
>> is displacing air/fuel.  You might cool the intake passages, but the 
>> water
>> takes up space too, so it defeats the purpose.  With turbo/super engines,
>> however, there's more to gain, so maybe it's worth it.
>>
>> In addition, I've wondered if water injection helps in the combustion
>> process by creating steam - which might expand at a greater rate than 
>> air.
>>
>> I say "might" because I'm far from an expert on gas laws.  Do you treat
>> steam as a gas?
>>
>> Water has unique properties.  It contracts for a while, and then expands,
>> and later on contracts again.  I think it's the only liquid that behaves
>> that way.  That's why water cracks blocks when it freezes.  I'm wondering
>> if
>> it also has unique expansion properties.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure we discussed this a couple of years ago.  It's probably 
>> in
>> the realbig archives.
>>
>> By the way, I didn't mean to imply that I was against intercooling.  It
>> obviously makes more power and helps longevity.  I just wanted to point 
>> out
>> that you can make a lot of HP without intercoolers.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>> >Sent: Jul 14, 2009 4:41 PM
>> >To: detomaso at realbig.com, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
>> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >
>> >Tomas,
>> >
>> >    I was tying to say that a cooler denser air mass flows easier 
>> > through
>> the intake manifold, so if you cool the air before entering a plenum 
>> (like
>> with intercoolers) you will get better air flow thorugh the intake
>> manifold,
>> and more power.
>> >
>> >Ken
>> >
>> >--- On Tue, 7/14/09, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
>> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> >Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 2:16 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >Not being an expert I think the energy required to vaporize the injected
>> fluid gives a certain result, if it results in lower runner or combustion
>> chamber temps doesn't matter. Also the temp increase from pressurizing 
>> the
>> air overshadows all other heating (convection etc) by far.
>> >
>> >Tomas
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>> >To: "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> >Cc: <wkooiman at earthlink.net>; "Myron Zadony" 
>> ><MZadony at fleetresponse.com>;
>> <arkoch at earthlink.net>; <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> >Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:29 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >
>> >
>> >> Boyd,
>> >>
>> >> Basically, yes. If you compress a gas,the temperature rises in the
>> absence of some means to conduct heat away from the compressed gas. But
>> that
>> doesn't mean you need intercooling. You can run low compression and/or 
>> use
>> water/alcohol injection. Dick doesn't have intercoolers and appears to be
>> making a bunch of HP, so they are not necessary for Dick's engine and 
>> use.
>> >>
>> >> One question I still have is if water/alcohol injection cools the 
>> >> intake
>> air flow in the intake manifold or mostly just in the combustion chamber.
>> Cooling the air in the combustion chamber would seem to address 
>> detonation,
>> but cooling the air in the intake manifold would make a denser air charge
>> through the intake and make more HP. It would be interesting to see 
>> intake
>> air temp data for different combinations of intercooling and 
>> water/alcohol
>> injection.
>> >>
>> >> Ken
>> >>
>> >> --- On Tue, 7/14/09, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >> To: "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>> >> Cc: wkooiman at earthlink.net, "Myron Zadony" 
>> >> <MZadony at fleetresponse.com>,
>> arkoch at earthlink.net, "PANTERA GROUP <(detomaso at realbig.com)>"
>> <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> >> Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 1:12 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So correct me if I am wrong. In other words what ever means you are
>> using
>> to
>> >> force induction you are supplying a pressurised gas to the combustion
>> >> chamber so even if you were not introducing additional heat from a 
>> >> turbo
>> >> charger you would be well advised to add some type of supplemental
>> cooling (
>> >> like an iter cooler ) In the case of a turbo charger you are adding 
>> >> heat
>> to
>> >> the engine via the process of compressing the fuel air mixture (as in
>> the
>> >> super charger) plus you are adding substantialy more heat via 
>> >> conduction
>> and
>> >> convection( the conduction of the heat through the matal parts of the
>> turbo
>> >> charger connected to the engine and the transfer of the heat vis
>> convection
>> >> ( the transfer from the heated exhaust gases traveling through the 
>> >> turbo
>> >> and the exhaust connections. So in boyh cases your dealing with a
>> >> substantial increase in thermal energy ( more in the turbo then the
>> super
>> >> charger) and since heat is the enemy of engines it would seem like a 
>> >> bad
>> >> idea to incorporate either a turbo or a supercharger with out using an
>> >> intercooler.
>> >> Boyd
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Boyd,
>> >>>
>> >>> The heat issue with supercharging is not just because turbochargers
>> >>> have a hot side. The Ideal Gas Law says that if you compress a gas, 
>> >>> the
>> >>> temperature goes up, no matter how you compress it. One form of
>> >>> the equation is:
>> >>>
>> >>> Tout = Tin + [Tin(Pout/Pin)^0.283 -1]/efficiency
>> >>>
>> >>> where temperature is absolute temperature and pressure is absolute
>> >>> pressure. Around 8 PSI boost raises the air temp about 100 deg F, no
>> matter
>> >>> how you compress the air. And compressors are not ideal, and a
>> centrifugal
>> >>> compressor is about 70 to 80 percent efficient at best, further 
>> >>> adding
>> to
>> >>> the air temp increase.
>> >>>
>> >>> The compressor side of the T04 turbos are around 70%efficientnt, the
>> newer
>> >>> GT series are in the 80s. The GT series turbos are water cooled, and 
>> >>> I
>> >>> assume that helps keep the heat transfer down some. But the problem 
>> >>> in
>> a
>> >>> lot of this is that there are so many independent variables that any
>> >>> analysis may be way off because you miss a few terms that add up to a
>> large
>> >>> effect. To add more confusion, I came across three sources with three
>> >>> different values for the exponent in the equation, 0.283, 0.263, and
>> 0.265.
>> >>> I guess from sloppy editing?
>> >>>
>> >>> Ken
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --- On *Tue, 7/14/09, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>* wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >>> To: "Peter Kovacs" <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net>
>> >>> Cc: wkooiman at earthlink.net, "Myron Zadony" <MZadony at fleetresponse.com
>> >,
>> >>> arkoch at earthlink.net, "PANTERA GROUP <(detomaso at realbig.com)>" <
>> >>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>> >>> Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 8:24 AM
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I was always of the opinion that ideally you should have an 
>> >>> intercooler
>> >>> with
>> >>> either a turbo or a supercharger but it was less essential for a 
>> >>> super
>> >>> charger and almost a necessity ( unless you are operating for very
>> short
>> >>> periods of time and don’t mind the dramatically reduced engine life)
>> with a
>> >>> turbocharger. Since the turbine on the turbo charger is run from hot
>> >>> exhaust
>> >>> gases that are far in excess of the normal operating temp of the 
>> >>> engine
>> and
>> >>> the greater the boost the hotter they get it’s akin to an athlete on
>> >>> steroids, you’re getting more power but the added heat is 
>> >>> dramatically
>> >>> shortening the effective life span of you engine and it’s components
>> >>> (especially the turbos themselves) they are in effect gas turbines 
>> >>> and
>> the
>> >>> combination of high temps and very high turbine rpms is a time bomb. 
>> >>> I
>> know
>> >>> when early attempts to turbo charge cars began there were virtually 
>> >>> no
>> >>> intercoolers and the turbos had a reputation for allot of power for a
>> >>> relatively short life expectancy. I don't think you can find a 
>> >>> factory
>> >>> turbo
>> >>> made in the past fifteen years or so that doesn’t incorporate an
>> >>> intercooler. With a super charger since the boost is derived from the
>> crank
>> >>> the intercooler is not as essential an item but again due to the 
>> >>> higher
>> >>> operating temps generated by the forced induction and more energy
>> produced
>> >>> =
>> >>> more heat and the fact that there is still substantial friction in 
>> >>> the
>> >>> super
>> >>> charger and it is sitting on top of a virtual oven an intercooler is
>> still
>> >>> a
>> >>> very good idea although not quite as essential as an intercooler on a
>> turbo
>> >>> which I believe is really a necessity. The engine in the twin turbo
>> with
>> >>> Nitrous Pantera that's on e-bay looks very cool and I bet it does 
>> >>> crank
>> out
>> >>> a boatload of Horse power and is probably okay for the quarter mile, 
>> >>> I
>> just
>> >>> wouldn' be confident in actually driving it under any demanding
>> conditions
>> >>> (like the silver state) I don't think it wwould stand a chance of
>> lasting
>> >>> if
>> >>> you ran it hard for the entire run. I have never envisioned my Pant 
>> >>> era
>> (or
>> >>> any Pantera for that matter) as a dragster where you run for 8- 12
>> seconds
>> >>> and the shut it off. My idea is of a high performance road racer 
>> >>> built
>> for
>> >>> racing (or just driving) a long distance with optimum performance for
>> the
>> >>> entire distance. Where high performance (high revs, high horse power)
>> is
>> >>> joined with endurance
>> >>>
>> >>> ( that's one reason I have never been a big fan of nitrous .It looks
>> cool
>> >>> in
>> >>> a movie where you need a big boost to pull away from your opponent in 
>> >>> a
>> >>> straight line and I may be wrong ( I'm sure someone will correct me 
>> >>> if
>> I
>> >>> am) but I was always under the impression that you couldn't just turn
>> on
>> >>> the
>> >>> nitrous and race around a track, you need to use it for a big kick in
>> the
>> >>> ass in a straight line, and due to the limited storage capacity it is
>> not
>> >>> practical for any kind of endurance. My idea of an ideal high output
>> engine
>> >>> (in a Pantera) is one that can produce the desired horse power and
>> provide
>> >>> it all day long. These are my opinions and you may or may not agree
>> with
>> >>> them. The basis I have for some of these ideas may not actually be
>> based
>> >>> on
>> >>> factual information, they are the ideas that I have developed from 
>> >>> the
>> >>> information I have picked up over the years. As you know not all of 
>> >>> the
>> so
>> >>> called "facts" that are disseminated through the list (and elsewhere)
>> are
>> >>> actually "facts" and there is allot of misinformation and 
>> >>> inaccuracies.
>> So
>> >>> if anyone does not agree with the opinions stated that is of course
>> their
>> >>> prerogative and I welcome them to share their opinion. If anyone
>> >>> identifies
>> >>> factual inaccuracies I would implore them to correct he errors for my
>> >>> behalf
>> >>> as well as the benefit of the other subscribers. We need to separate
>> fact
>> >>> from fiction in the Pant era world and the only way to accomplish 
>> >>> that
>> is
>> >>> by
>> >>> cooperation among those that “know unequivocally “ what the facts are
>> and
>> >>> what you think the facts are. You can ask a fairly straightforward
>> question
>> >>> that has an answer that is really not subject to interpretation and 
>> >>> you
>> >>> will
>> >>> still get several different answers.
>> >>>
>> >>> Boyd
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Peter Kovacs
>> <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pet
>> er-kovacs at sbcglobal.net>
>> >>> >
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Neither my 88 5.0 which runs about 11 psi nor my supercharged 73 P 
>> >>> Car
>> >>> (sniff sniff) when it ran ve intercoolers. Neither of them seemed
>> >>> underpowered for street use and although they both would likely 
>> >>> benefit
>> >>> from
>> >>> having one, other items such as water injection, nitrous, traction
>> >>> enhancements, EMS enhancements etc, would likely provide more
>> significant
>> >>> benefit for my needs and seat of the pants feel.
>> >>>
>> >>> Peter Kovac’
>> >>> Property Equity & Mortgage Mgmt
>> >>> 209 345-6708
>> >>> 209 523-4919 fx
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ________________________________
>> >>> From:
>> "wkooiman at earthlink.net<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wkooima
>> n at earthlink.net>"
>> >>>
>> <wkooiman at earthlink.net<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wkooima
>> n at earthlink.net>
>> >>> >
>> >>> To:
>> arkoch at earthlink.net<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arkoch@ear
>> thlink.net>;
>> >>> Myron Zadony
>> <MZadony at fleetresponse.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=MZad
>> ony at fleetresponse.com>
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> Cc: "PANTERA GROUP
>> (detomaso at realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@
>> realbig.com>)"
>> >>>
>> <detomaso at realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@
>> realbig.com>
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:27:52 PM
>> >>>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >>>
>> >>> My 1984 Mustang GT had a 2.3L turbo without an intercooler. It was
>> >>> essentially a Mustang SVO, but slightly detuned and without the
>> >>> intercooler. And, of course, it had a normal GT suspension instead of
>> the
>> >>> SVO setup.
>> >>>
>> >>> It was almost as fast as the 5.0L Mustang GT of the same year. I 
>> >>> think
>> it
>> >>> was .2 or .3 slower in the 1/4.
>> >>>
>> >>> My sister had a 79 Mustang with a 2.3L 4-cylinder. It was a pig. We
>> took
>> >>> it out on the ice just so we could experience the tires spinning.
>> >>>
>> >>> My point? I don't think you need an intercooler, especially if we're
>> >>> talking about a 351C.
>> >>>
>> >>> One last data point. My 93 Mustang Cobra started with a decent 5.0L. 
>> >>> It
>> >>> was basically a 5.0L with GT40 heads. It was a fun car. After I had 
>> >>> the
>> >>> car for several years, I decided to try a Vortech supercharger. When 
>> >>> I
>> >>> added the blower, it felt like I added 200HP (I know - not quite, but
>> >>> that's
>> >>> what it felt like). No intercooler.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm not arguing against an intercooler. Of course, it's going to make
>> more
>> >>> power with an intercooler. I'm just saying that you can still make 
>> >>> more
>> HP
>> >>> than you can use on the street w/out an intercooler.
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> >From: Dick Koch
>> <arkoch at earthlink.net<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=arkoch@ea
>> rthlink.net>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Sent: Jul 13, 2009 7:55 PM
>> >>> >To: Myron Zadony
>> <MZadony at fleetresponse.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=MZad
>> ony at fleetresponse.com>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Cc: "PANTERA GROUP
>> (detomaso at realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@
>> realbig.com>)"
>> >>>
>> <detomaso at realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@
>> realbig.com>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Subject: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >>> >
>> >>> >That looks like an old Lance Nist turbo installation. Wilkinson had
>> >>> >Lance do some of that work for him as I remember. I know Lance did
>> >>> >Wilkinson's personal twin turbo Pantera setup in 1974 or 5. What 
>> >>> >sold
>> >>> >me on my original turbo setup that I had Lance do in 1976 was taking 
>> >>> >a
>> >>> >ride in Wilkinson's Pantera late one night after I had met with Roy
>> >>> >Butfoy to discuss fixing my ZF. Many of Lance's original turbo 
>> >>> >setups
>> >>> >did not have any form of intercooling.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Myron, I've got to believe the comment you made in reference to the
>> twin
>> >>> >turbo car, you meant that without some "form of inercooling" you
>> >>> >couldn't have a well designed turbo setup. Valid statement and to 
>> >>> >the
>> >>> >point. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >With the combined methanol injection and a mall shot of nitrous on 
>> >>> >the
>> >>> >front side of my turbos acting as my "intercooler:" system, the 
>> >>> >engine
>> >>> >runs just fine on pump gas at up to 16psi, with no knock and no
>> >>> >overheating, putting out in the neighborhood of 800 hp.
>> >>> ><http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20Info/KochWWA3.JPG>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Dick Koch - Atlanta
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Myron Zadony wrote:
>> >>> >> ________________________________________
>> >>> >> From: Danylo Zadony
>> >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 2:15 PM
>> >>> >> To: Myron Zadony
>> >>> >> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Eeeekk
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Instant concern would be the lack of cooling for the boosted air
>> >>> entering
>> >>> the engine. No air to air or liquid to air nothing. That engine 
>> >>> design
>> is
>> >>> not made to be driven at all... Remember the other turbo setup I sent
>> >>> along
>> >>> with the large intercooler, that's correct. Nothing like having air 
>> >>> hot
>> >>> enough to make metal glow enter the engine before detonation in the
>> >>> cylinder, talk about needing awfully high 100+ octane all the time.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Car is gorgeous but sadly corners were cut on the engine. You can
>> see
>> >>> he
>> >>> has heat problems and had to add direct port injection for cooling
>> either
>> >>> with co2 or n2o.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Danylo Zadony
>> >>> >> Applications Developer
>> >>> >> Direct Fax: 216-532-8568
>> >>> >> Phone: 216-525-3870 ext. 226
>> >>> >> Toll Free: 1-800-338-0619
>> >>> >> www.fleetresponse.com
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> >> From: Myron Zadony
>> >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:15 PM
>> >>> >> To: Danylo Zadony
>> >>> >> Subject: FW: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Check out : Interior, Engine & the paint job. Tato.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> ________________________________________
>> >>> >> From:
>> detomaso-bounces at realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=de
>> tomaso-bounces at realbig.com>[
>> >>>
>> detomaso-bounces at realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=de
>> tomaso-bounces at realbig.com>]
>> >>> On
>> >>> Behalf Of chris terp
>> [thefuture98070 at yahoo.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thefu
>> ture98070 at yahoo.com>
>> >>> ]
>> >>> >> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:28 AM
>> >>> >> To: De Tomaso List; boyd casey
>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Does anybody know who built the motor, and is it stable? 5000k
>> miles?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Chris Terp
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> --- On Sun, 7/12/09, boyd casey
>> <boyd411 at gmail.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=boyd411@gmai
>> l.com>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> From: boyd casey
>> <boyd411 at gmail.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=boyd411@gmai
>> l.com>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> >>> >> To: "De Tomaso List"
>> <detomaso at realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=detomaso@
>> realbig.com>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:32 PM
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Pantera-1972-DeTomaso-Pantera-Twi
>>
>> n-Turbo-800-hp-VERY-FAST_W0QQitemZ200362113713QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Tru
>>
>> cks?hash=item2ea6833ab1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C7
>> 2%3A317
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Nice engine and suspension and paint, funky intierior
>> >>> >> $100k
>> >>> >> Boyd
>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at
>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> DeTomaso mailing list
>> >>> >>
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DeTom
>> aso at list.realbig.com>
>> >>> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at
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>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> DeTomaso mailing list
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>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DeTom
>> aso at list.realbig.com>
>> >>> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at
>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> DeTomaso mailing list
>> >>> >>
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DeTom
>> aso at list.realbig.com>
>> >>> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >_______________________________________________
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Archive Search Engine Now Available at
>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >>> >
>> >>> >DeTomaso mailing list
>> >>>
>> >DeTomaso at list.realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DeTo
>> maso at list.realbig.com>
>> >>> >http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>
>> >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>>
>> >>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at
>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >>>
>> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
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>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DeTom
>> aso at list.realbig.com>
>> >>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>
>> >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>>
>> >>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at
>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >>>
>> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> >>>
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DeTom
>> aso at list.realbig.com>
>> >>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>
>> >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>>
>> >>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at
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>> >>>
>> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> >>>
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com<
>> http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=DeTom
>> aso at list.realbig.com>
>> >>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>
>> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at 
>> >> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >>
>> >> DeTomaso mailing list
>> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>
>> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at 
>> >> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >>
>> >> DeTomaso mailing list
>> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
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>> >>
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >
>> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >
>> >Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >
>> >DeTomaso mailing list
>> >DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> >http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >
>> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >
>> >Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >
>> >DeTomaso mailing list
>> >DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> >http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
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>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 

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