[DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay

Peter Kovacs peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net
Tue Jul 14 01:59:22 EDT 2009


Neither my 88 5.0 which runs about 11 psi nor my supercharged 73 P Car (sniff sniff) when it ran, have intercoolers. Neither of them seemed underpowered for street use and although they both would likely benefit from having one, other items such as water injection, nitrous, traction enhancements, EMS enhancements etc, would likely provide more significant benefit for my needs and seat of the pants feel.
 
Peter Kovacs
Property Equity & Mortgage Mgmt
209 345-6708 
209 523-4919 fx




________________________________
From: "wkooiman at earthlink.net" <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
To: arkoch at earthlink.net; Myron Zadony <MZadony at fleetresponse.com>
Cc: "PANTERA GROUP (detomaso at realbig.com)" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:27:52 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay

My 1984 Mustang GT had a 2.3L turbo without an intercooler.  It was essentially a Mustang SVO, but slightly detuned and without the intercooler.  And, of course, it had a normal GT suspension instead of the SVO setup.

It was almost as fast as the 5.0L Mustang GT of the same year.  I think it was .2 or .3 slower in the 1/4.

My sister had a 79 Mustang with a 2.3L 4-cylinder.  It was a pig.  We took it out on the ice just so we could experience the tires spinning.

My point?  I don't think you need an intercooler, especially if we're talking about a 351C.

One last data point.  My 93 Mustang Cobra started with a decent 5.0L.  It was basically a 5.0L with GT40 heads.  It was a fun car.  After I had the car for several years, I decided to try a Vortech supercharger.  When I added the blower, it felt like I added 200HP (I know - not quite, but that's what it felt like).  No intercooler.

I'm not arguing against an intercooler.  Of course, it's going to make more power with an intercooler.  I'm just saying that you can still make more HP than you can use on the street w/out an intercooler.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Dick Koch <arkoch at earthlink.net>
>Sent: Jul 13, 2009 7:55 PM
>To: Myron Zadony <MZadony at fleetresponse.com>
>Cc: "PANTERA GROUP (detomaso at realbig.com)" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>Subject: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>
>That looks like an old  Lance Nist turbo installation.  Wilkinson had 
>Lance do some of that work for him as I remember.  I know Lance did 
>Wilkinson's  personal twin turbo Pantera setup in 1974 or 5.  What sold 
>me on my original turbo setup that I had Lance do in 1976 was taking a 
>ride in Wilkinson's Pantera late one night after I had met with Roy 
>Butfoy to discuss fixing my ZF.  Many of Lance's original turbo setups 
>did not have any form of intercooling. 
>
>Myron, I've got to believe the comment you made in reference to the twin 
>turbo car, you meant that without some "form of inercooling"  you 
>couldn't have a well designed turbo setup.  Valid statement and to the 
>point.  However, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
>
>With the combined methanol injection and a mall shot of nitrous on the 
>front side of my turbos acting as my "intercooler:" system, the engine 
>runs just fine on pump gas at up to 16psi, with no knock and no 
>overheating, putting out in the neighborhood of 800 hp. 
><http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20Info/KochWWA3.JPG>
>
>Dick Koch - Atlanta
> 
>Myron Zadony wrote:
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Danylo Zadony
>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 2:15 PM
>> To: Myron Zadony
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>>
>> Eeeekk
>>
>> Instant concern would be the lack of cooling for the boosted air entering the engine.  No air to air or liquid to air nothing.  That engine design is not made to be driven at all...  Remember the other turbo setup I sent along with the large intercooler, that's correct.  Nothing like having air hot enough to make metal glow enter the engine before detonation in the cylinder, talk about needing awfully high 100+ octane all the time.
>>
>> Car is gorgeous but sadly corners were cut on the engine.  You can see he has heat problems and had to add direct port injection for cooling either with co2 or n2o.
>>
>>
>>
>> Danylo Zadony
>> Applications Developer
>> Direct Fax: 216-532-8568
>> Phone: 216-525-3870 ext. 226
>> Toll Free: 1-800-338-0619
>> www.fleetresponse.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Myron Zadony
>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:15 PM
>> To: Danylo Zadony
>> Subject: FW: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>>
>> Check out :  Interior, Engine & the paint job.  Tato.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On Behalf Of chris terp [thefuture98070 at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:28 AM
>> To: De Tomaso List; boyd casey
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>>
>> Does anybody know who built the motor, and is it stable?  5000k miles?
>>
>> Chris Terp
>>
>> --- On Sun, 7/12/09, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] twin turbo pantera on ebay
>> To: "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:32 PM
>>
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Pantera-1972-DeTomaso-Pantera-Twin-Turbo-800-hp-VERY-FAST_W0QQitemZ200362113713QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2ea6833ab1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A317
>>
>> Nice engine and suspension and paint, funky intierior
>> $100k
>> Boyd
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