[DeTomaso] Pantera vs. Saturn drag race
Mark McWhinney
msm at portata.com
Tue Jan 6 15:03:00 EST 2009
I pity the fool.
________________________________
From: larry at ohiotimecorp.com [mailto:larry at ohiotimecorp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:01 PM
To: leonp at cia.gov; Mark McWhinney
Cc: michael at michaelshortt.com; Thomas Tornblom; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera vs. Saturn drag race
<<Alpha team >>
Is that the one with Mr. T on it?
Larry (shhhh) - Cleveland
On Tue Jan 6 14:45 , "Mark McWhinney" sent:
Leon (private to you) -- this Michal guy is asking too many
questions.
He may be on to us. You need to send in the Alpha team to make
him
disappear.
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
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[detomaso-bounces at realbig.com <javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
','','','')">detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
<javascript:top.opencompose('detomaso-bounces at realbig.com','','','')> ]
On Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
<javascript:top.opencompose('michael at michaelshortt.com','','','')>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:33 AM
To: Mark McWhinney
Cc: Thomas Tornblom; detomaso at realbig.com
<javascript:top.opencompose('detomaso at realbig.com','','','')>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera vs. Saturn drag race
I can't believe y'all started this thread on here knowing how
many
engineer
types populate the forum, good God, it's gonna rain geekdrops
for days!
But having said that...
I was 9.5 years old when my Grandfather loaded us into the Dodge
Explorer
Motorhome in 1969 to go see Apollo 11 lift off, I have also seen
two
Shuttles lift off.
A Saturn 5 Rocket being compared to a Shuttle is akin to
comparing my
500
HP Pantera to a Tykes Plastic Peddle Car.
I was 2 miles away, across a river, the ground shook, the water
rippled,
the
air rush wasn't imagined, it was by far the most awesome display
of
power
that I have had the privilege to experience in my entire life.
Aside from all these comparsions and since the brainy types will
surely
check this out, I do have a serious question with regard to the
Shuttles
that has bothered me since the last incident.
As we all know the last fatal Shuttle crash happened ( as shared
with us
anyway ) as a result of a piece of ice or insulation falling off
the
storage
tank and striking the wing's leading edge, thus leaving a hole
for
re-entry
gases/heat to cause terminal damage, leading to the loss of
control and
the
eventual break up of the Shuttle.
Then tests were conducted that showed ice being fired out of an
air
cannon
at a reproduction of the wing's leading edge, the exit speed of
the ice
was
reported to be greater than 500 mph.
If the mass of the Shuttle, ( Orbiter, Tank and Solid Fuel
Engines ) was
accelerating at up to
17,000 miles per hour ( as it reaches "space"), and accounting
for all
parts
to have equal forward momentum, would an errant piece of ice
that
separated
from the Tank really decelerate by 500 mph in the 20-30 feet
between the
ice's separation point and contact with the wing's leading edge?
The variables that bother me are..... If it happened early in
the lift
off
and it appeared to happen before clearing the tower or just
thereafter,
then
as stated in all these posts, the Shuttle wasn't going even
close to
17,000
mph, it fact, it probably wasn't even supersonic yet, so how
could there
be
a 500 mph difference in speed between the ice and the wing's
edge.
Or if it happened at a higher attitude, the air would be much,
much
thinner,
thus less drag on the ice, thus retaining more forward speed -
then why
would the collision differential still be so great?
Inquiring minds need an explanation.
Soaking wet with geek drops in Savannah,
Michael
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Mark McWhinney <msm at portata.com
<javascript:top.opencompose('msm at portata.com','','','')> > wrote:
> No need for physics or guessing. Watch the launch of an Apollo
mission
> rocket on YouTube.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=Rc1IKpWZpxc
<http://emailmg.startlogic.com/atmail/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww
.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRc1IKpWZpxc>
>
> It takes around 10 seconds for the rocket to clear its own
height (360
> feet) and several more to reach a quarter mile (1,320 feet).
In that
> time, a top fuel car has popped its chutes and is headed back
to the
> garage.
>
> The 180 foot tall Space Shuttle is a bit quicker but still no
match
for
> a top fuel car.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=4FROxZ5i67k
<http://emailmg.startlogic.com/atmail/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww
.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D4FROxZ5i67k>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
<javascript:top.opencompose('detomaso-bounces at realbig.com','','','')>
[detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
<javascript:top.opencompose('%3ca%20href=>
','','','')">detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
<javascript:top.opencompose('detomaso-bounces at realbig.com','','','')> ]
> On Behalf Of adin at frontier.net
<javascript:top.opencompose('adin at frontier.net','','','')>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:12 AM
> To: Thomas Tornblom
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
<javascript:top.opencompose('detomaso at realbig.com','','','')>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera vs. Saturn drag race
>
> Thomas,
> The information officer, as I remember, said the rate of
acceleration
> was constant. This is a valid point, but the rate might be
considered
> "constant" for the case in point.
>
> Unfortunately, I've lost my license to post as a physicist and
can
only
> guess!
>
> This all started w/ an online debate about which was quicker:
top fuel
> car or the shuttle. I emailed a friend a NASA who found an
email for
> the PR information people. They found someone w/ the data!
>
> This was some years ago . . . .
>
> David
>
>
>
> Quoting Thomas Tornblom <Thomas.Tornblom at hax.se
<javascript:top.opencompose('Thomas.Tornblom at hax.se','','','')> >:
>
> > adin at frontier.net
<javascript:top.opencompose('adin at frontier.net','','','')> skrev:
> >> FWIW, a good top fuel car accelerates faster than the big
missles
> >> (data from NASA). However, the rate of acceleration for
these
> >> rockets stays basically the same for a few miles (hundreds,
or
> >> until they stop for a traffic light).
> >
> > I thought they accelerated harder as they burn off fuel and
gets
> > lighter, or do they throttle down to compensate?
> >
> > Thomas
>
>
>
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--
Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
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