[DeTomaso] new engine in my future?

Fri Aug 28 13:30:58 EDT 2009

Boyd brings up one of the key aspects in choosing a reputable engine 
builder.   While there are many good engine builders around the country, 
the very best do an extensive power and validation test regimen before 
they deliver the engine to their customer. 

In our Mustang program, we guarantee the engine for 12,000 miles and/or 
12 months.  We can do that with confidence on the high horsepower motors 
we have built due to the extensive post engine build dyno testing that 
is done on every engine.

Nothing of value comes free (at least not for me).  This process adds to 
the cost but insures the customer gets a durable engine that meets his 
operating objectives and minimizes down the line expensive problems we 
have to fix at our cost.

The following is the outline on what is done in the post engine build 
testing process.

Dick Koch - Atlanta

  Engine Power and Durability Validation

  Every Shadrach Mustang High Output (HO) engine undergoes a grueling 20
  hour dynamometer (dyno) regimen to insure that each engine will meet
  the power objectives set for that engine and maximize its durability. 

*_Dynamometer Setup and Engine Break-in_**  *The complete engine is 
installed on the dyno, which includes connecting 38 data acquisition 
channels to capture pertinent engine variables.  The engine is run for 
approximately three (3) hours, using special lubricants, controlled 
temperatures, with special dyno load regimens followed.  This break-in 
procedure insures the piston rings and bearings are seated properly.

*_Integrity Checks_**  *After the initial break-in testing, the engine 
is shut down.  A leak down test is performed to verify that the rings 
are seated.  A compression test it performed next to verify the engine 
meets the prescribed compression parameters.

The engine is then cooled to room temperature and the oil changed.  
Special additives are added to the oil and water that will be used to 
identify any potential oil leaks. The heads are then re-torqued along 
with other related parts 

After additional break-in testing is completed, the engine is subjected 
to an ”ultra black light” leak test to determine if there are any oil or 
water leaks.  If there are any leaks detected, they are fixed prior to 
proceeding.

*_Final Tuning and Testing_**  *On the second day of testing, four (4) 
engine pulls are initially completed to verify the previous day’s 
testing “base line”, after which 64 data acquisition channels are hooked 
up for the final tuning and testing procedures.

During the approximately two (2) hours of drivability testing, boost is 
added for the first time.   The “described” full power test is then 
performed, with adjustments made to insure the engine performance 
specifications are met.  Full computer mapping is constantly monitored 
and changes made to achieve the desired power objectives and to insure 
maximum durability of the engine.

*_Post Dyno Testing Checkout_**  *After the dyno-testing regimen has 
been completed and the engine meets all operating objectives, the engine 
is rechecked for any problems. Those procedures include a complete 
inspection to verify there are no oil or water leaks, performing another 
leak down test and a final compression test.  An oil sample is taken and 
tested to determine if there are any contaminants that would indicate a 
potential problem.

When the engine has passed final inspection, the engine is removed from 
the dyno, cleaned and prepped for installation.

*_Documentation_**  *The engine dynamometer-testing regimen is fully 
documented, with all pertinent engine data and performance figures 
supplied with each Shadrach Mustang that has a high output performance 
engine installed.

boyd casey wrote:
> I have been researching this topic for some time and regardless of your
> ultimate choice I would strongly recommend that you steer clear of any
> engine builder that does not provide a "run in period" ( if there are going
> to be problems you want them to be identified before you install the engine.
> And I think even more important an engine with out a dyno sheet ( and allot
> of builders provide a dyno sheet of a comparable build<in other words they
> have built ten identical engines and you get a dyno sheet they ran on the
> first engine NOT THE ENGINE YOU BOUGHT. Without a dyno sheet on your exact
> engine you are buying a promise. Even a dyno sheet is worthless if you don't
> trust the builder because it's simple to hand you a sheet and say it goes
> with your engine.. I personally would not buy an engine with out it being
> run in and set up on a dyno and with a sheet that documents the engines
> performance for the exact engine I am buying not a similar build even though
> they will say "we have built loads of theses" There are always defective
> parts , builder error, and fraud as possible issues to contend with . Cavet
> emptor! The lowest price is very rarely the best deal. I would also try to
> find a builder that is as close as possible to your location  There is
> nothing as nice as resolving problems in person and nothing as frustrating
> as trying to resolve an engine problem with a builder that is located
> hundreds of miles ( or more) away. Also besides relying on someones ebay
> points I would google there business name with search words specifically
> looking for problems .
>
> Boyd
>
> P.S. RED ALERT!!!!!!
>  This guy does business under several different names :This is not a good
> sign. Just google "Tuff Dawg Engine reviews"
> Tuff Dawg You know,
>
>  Phoenix Engine Rebuilders
> (www.phoenixengine.com)
>
> They also sell in Ebay under: phoenixmusclecar
> http://stores.ebay.com/Phoenix-Engine-Crate-Turn-Key
>  He has listings for corvette owners , Bronco owners, Jeep owners ETC. You
> get the idea.
> I just did a quick check and there were way too many dissatisfied customers
> for my liking. Even the best builder will have some complaints because you
> can't please everyone. From just this one sit it seemed like every other
> person had some sort of complaint and some had catastrophic failures within
> a few hundred miles!!  I woul pass on this guy.
> http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136059&referrerid=15729
> A quote from one of his corvette customers.
> 'I bought a 350 motor from Phoenixmusclecar on eBay. It was a total piece of
> sh!t. Was advertised to have 380hp with 400lb of torque. It was more like
> 200hp with maybe 250lb or torque. With-in a thousand miles on the motor it
> blew a headgasket & bent a rod. I pulled the motor and disassembled it to
> find out it had 305 heads with the absolutely cheapest rods, crank and cam
> known to man kind. I concluded that I paid $3000 for a nice carb and water
> pump, which is all that I reused on my new 383 that I built my self. I built
> my 383 for $5500 with all high quality parts that is estimated to have 490hp
> with 510lb of torque. You could build yourself a quality 400hp motor for
> $2500 to $3000 with the motor you have. Do yourself a favor and built it
> yourself or find a local guy that is reputable. I never did get any of my
> money back because I installed it after the warranty.
> Quote: Getting ripped off across the entire country “priceless” '
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Tim Morgan <morganuci at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> My 73's existing engine is somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 HP.
>> Recently, it was making a strange noise, and the oil smells of gasoline and
>> there are a lot of metal filings on the oil drain plug.  Assuming it's
>> toast, that leaves me with a few choices:
>>
>>   1. Rebuild my existing engine
>>   2. Buy a new block, transfer everything else (heads etc.) from my old
>>   engine
>>   3. Buy a crate motor
>>
>> I'm leaning towards #3 because it seems like the fastest and easiest
>> choice.  I also want to end up with a better, more powerful motor than I
>> had, as long as I'm doing this, and buying a crate motor gets me a bunch of
>> new, hi performance parts all in one package.  Then the question is,
>> Windsor, Cleveland, or something else?  I'd like to stick with Cleveland
>> for
>> a number of reasons, including being able to reuse a lot of what I already
>> have, such as my fuel injection system.  But of course, Clevelands are much
>> less plentiful than Windsors.
>>
>> So, I was looking at this particular engine:
>> http://www.tuffdawgengines.com/ford_351C_445hp.htm.  It goes for $5195 as
>> described.  He will install my intake manifold (sorry, I don't know what
>> model it is, but it has the fuel injectors installed in it) in place of his
>> normal manifold.  His price includes testing, balancing, shipping, etc., as
>> in the description, but not breaking it in or dyno testing it.
>>
>> Is there an alternative that I should look at?  He has 100% positive
>> feedback on eBay (on 19 transactions in the last 12 months), but does
>> anyone
>> have experience with Tuff Dawg engines, good or bad (you can write to me
>> individually rather than post if you prefer)?  I'm in the greater Seattle
>> (Issaquah) area.
>>
>> Also, what cam or cam specs would be good for a fuel injected Cleveland for
>> street use?  He thought that the optimum would be different than with a
>> carb.
>>
>> Tim
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>   