[DeTomaso] Fontana/Clevor Block
Art Stephens
artstephens at verizon.net
Wed Aug 12 15:21:04 EDT 2009
Wow, that's a lot of info Dan! It's making my head hurt. :-)) So I
presume my CHI 3V heads would work, but not my CHI dual plane manifold? If
I were to do this at this time, I would hope to be able to use as much as
possible from my almost new, 408 Cleveland. I just called Fontana, and
they gave me a price of about $4600 plus tax, so about 5K for a block that
needs to be bored. I'm guessing this could easily run 6K by the time I
bought all the parts to make it work in my Pantera? Six thousand as opposed
to $500-1000 for another iron block, I'm not having a lot of trouble with
this decision. :-))
Thank you for all the great info Dan,
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel C Jones" <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fontana/Clevor Block
>> Other than the price of the block, what other changes would I have to
>> make if I went with their 9.2 inch deck height block?
>
> I'm told Fontana sold the rights/tooling to his block to Shelby who
> modified it to be more of a Windsor block. I think Fontana still
> sells the Clevor version but check to be sure. In any event, here
> are my notes on the Fontana:
>
> Fontana Block Parts Interchange:
>
> - Available in 9.2" (Cleveland) or 9.5" (Windsor) deck heights.
> Mine is a 9.2" deck block.
> - Siamesed bore (dry wall, ductile iron top hat cylinder liners, interlock
> with flats on sides between bores). Absolute maximum bore is 4.155",
> though 4.125" is probably more likely (sonic test to be sure).
> - For large diameter bores, recommended headgaskets are Fel-Pro 1022
> (left hand) and 1023 (right hand). These gaskets have 4.160" bores,
> are notched (one has 2 notches, the other 3 notches) and come with
> instructions. Use Fel-Pro 1021 for bores up to 4.1".
> - Clearanced for standard full size starter (I'm using a mini starter)
> - Compatible with solid or hydraulic flat tappet lifters and solid roller
> lifters but does not have the tall bosses for OEM hydraulic roller
> lifters. Can use the Crane link bar hydraulic lifters or reduced base
> circle cam.
> - 4 bolt main caps on all 5 mains, splayed on 2, 3, and 4.
> - Windsor rear intake manifold seal rail shape (requires SVO or Edelbrock
> dual end seal style intake). Several 4 barrel carb intakes available
> (new and used). Kelly Coffiled makes a compatible IR EFI intakes.
> - Windsor oil system layout
> - 2.750" main diameter (for Cleveland diameter crank), though I think
> Fontana will bore to 3" Windsor mains if requested.
> - 351 Cleveland main bearings
> - 351 Cleveland oil pan and gasket
> - 351 Cleveland oil pump and pick up
> - 351 Cleveland cam (13726548 firing order)
> - 351 Cleveland cam bearings
> - 351 Windsor distributor with Cleveland gear (or just Cleveland
> distributor?)
> - 351 Windsor timing chain
> - 351 Windsor timing cover gasket
> - 351 Windsor water pump ('70-up)
> - 351 Windsor end seals (intake end rails)
> - The head studs need to be longer than those for an iron 351C. Exact
> length will depend upon the heads being used. The Ford Motorsport high
> port (A3, B351, C302, C302B) and Yates aluminum heads, along with the
> Brodix BF300 heads, take longer head studs than iron 351C heads. In the
> case of my C302B heads on the aluminum 9.2" deck height Fontana block,
> the studs required are:
>
> 8-1/4", 1/2" UNC x 2.25" on end end, 1/2" UNF x 1.25" on the other
> 7-1/8", 1/2" UNC x 2.25" on end end, 1/2" UNF x 1.25" on the other
>
> I called ARP and they do not make studs that long in the above
> configuration. Fontana said hhe them in stock. Cost was $434 for a
> set of head studs, 12 point nuts and hardened washers. However,
> even these were too short. Joe is looking into getting the proper
> studs.
> - The Fontana block lifter bores are 41 degrees, same as a Cleveland.
> 351W lifter bores are slightly different (45 degrees).
> - Will need a 351C type retrofit kit or link bar lifters to run a
> hydraulic
> roller.
> - Machined to accept M-6701-A351 two-piece rear main seal.
> - Pressure port drilled at back of block just above bellhousing flange
> (lowest pressure point)
> - Fontana recommends using M-6799-A302 oil restrictor kit, even though
> Windsor-based oil system (probably just for racing).
> - Small block Ford lifters (same for Cleveland or Windsor)
> - Small block Ford motor mounts (same for Cleveland or Windsor)
> - Fontana specific front cover (included), optional sprint car front
> cover.
> - Custom length pushrods
> - Screw-in, O-ringed, Allen head core plugs
> - Can be plugged at oil filter or oil pump base for dry sump (remove
> for wet sump).
> - Has wet sump provision but is currently plugged for dry sump (need to
> remove one plug).
> - Has pad for internal oil pump (not just external wet sump).
> - Ford Motorsport Cleveland-style canted valve aluminum high port cylinder
> heads (A3/B351/C302/Yates) require water passages be plugged like a
> Windsor block (per SVO cylinder head instruction sheet).
> - Windsor cooling system (Windsor thermostat in manifold or remote
> thermostat, not Cleveland in-block thermostat).
> - Drilled for hydraulic of solid lifters. Can use hydraulic flat, solid
> flat, or solid roller. Lifter bosses not tall enough for OEM hydraulic
> roller (could use reduced base circle retro-fits).
> - Lifter bore angles are non-stock
> - Bare block weight = 116 lbs
> - Per Super Ford magazine article on Pantera engine, assembled engine
> weight
> is 404 lbs (Fontana block, high port heads, Ford Motorsport intake).
> - Gasket deck is 0.900" thick and head stud holes are 2.5" deep (9.5
> deck?)
> - All core and oil galley holes are threaded for pipe plugs
> - Each cylinder is fitted with a 4.270" O.D. dry wall iron sleeve
> providing
> for a maximum bore of 4.155".
> - Numbers one and five main caps reatined by two 0.500" studs and two
> 0.375" studs. The three center caps are held in place with two 0.500"
> hardened studs and two splayed 0.375" Allen head cap screws.
> - 356-T6 aluminum
> - Distance between camshaft and crank centerline is 4.07", same as a 351W.
> - Custom front cover is needed because Fontana uses a Cleveland oil pan.
> - Coolant flow path is same as a 351W (no return passages in upper front
> corners of block like a Cleveland).
>
> Torque specs:
>
> Head studs 115 ft-lbs
> Main Studs 1/2" diameter 100 ft-lbs
> Main Studs 3/8" diameter 35 ft-lbs
> Main Studs 7/16" diameter 55 ft-lbs
>
> Run head studs into block with 10 ft-lbs maximum. Apply light coat
> of silicone RTV on N.C. thread of head stud. Re-torque head studs
> after initial running. Engine should be at room temperature for
> re-torquing.
>
> Instructions to Restrict Oil to Lifter Galleys on Fontana Clevor block
> (see illustration of rear of block):
>
> 1. Tap 7/16"-14 through rear lifter galley openings. Stop before threads
> reach lifter bore or when nose of tap appears.
> 2. Clean block and install set screws, 5/16" long, 0.073" hole, and use
> Loctite.
>
> Basic Instructions for Cleavor Block (already performed on my block):
>
> 1. Deburr and polish interior surfaces of block
> 2. Bore sleeves to size
> 3. Hone to final size
> automatic hone - use Sunnen JHU625
> hand operated - use Sunnen AN501
> finish should be 14 to 23 RMS
> 4. Match up water coolant passage holes in block to holes in head gasket
> by hand grinding block.
> 5. Install torque plate to seat sleeves
> 6. Deck block.
>
> General Notes:
>
> Joe Fontana recommends the main bearing clearances be 0.0015" to 0.0020"
> cold (will grow a 1/2 thousandth hot).
>
> Roush pins the cam bearings from the top on his race motors so the cam
> bearings do not walk fore-and-aft (material is relatively thin there so
> be careful). Roush may also helicoils the mains but Fontana only suggests
> that for repair.
>
> Aluminum expands more than iron. The aluminum block and heads can expand
> by more than 20 thousandths when hot. Note that this is more than the
> lash on a "tight lash" solid lifter cam (required lash of 16 thou is less
> than the expansion). You need to set the lash hot.
>
> Miscellaneous Notes (Pantera-specific):
>
> 351W waterpump on Fontana front cover will position the pulley in the
> same spot as Cleveland and has water outlet on same side but new accessory
> brackets will be needed (Windsor type to match the front cover). Pantera
> vendors should have these (I think I got mine from the Byars Brothers).
> May need to custom fabricate a thermostat housing to coolant pressure tank
> pipe but this will depend upon your heads and intake and how you route
> the coolant through the cylinder heads. Price Motorsport Engineering
> and CHI both make a bolt-on thermostat housing that places the thermostat
> level like a 351C so a 351C water neck will bolt right up.
>
>> Any other reasons not to go this route?
>
> Tod Buttermore is working (in his spare time) an aluminum 351C block
> but it's anyone's guess when they will be on the market and how many
> will actually produced.
>
> Dan Jones
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