[DeTomaso] efi horse power gain

Tue Aug 11 23:00:51 EDT 2009

That's a nice collection of info there, Dick!
Thanks!

On 11 Aug 2009, at 9:14 PM, Dick Koch wrote:

> I'm coming to this discussion late, but thought I would share a couple
> thoughts on my experience with engine management systems (both EFI and
> Ignition Control).
>
> In my experience with my Pantera and more recently with the various
> versions of the Shadrach Mustang, a competent tuner will be able to  
> use
> most any tuning software given the time to learn the user interface
> (point made I believe by Kirby).  Other than some of the newer
> variations on injection control, tuning an engine is not magic.  How
> fast and good a tune a person gets is based on a person's experience
> with how to tune an engine for its intended purpose.
>
> I personally use the Electromotive TEC II in my Pantera
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Earkoch/images/WoW/WWoW%20021706%20006.jpg 
> >
> and it takes care of all the necessary parameters for ignition and  
> fuel
> management.  While it doesn't have as many bells and whistles as the  
> TEC
> 3 (which I will go to when the TEC II dies) or other newer systems,  
> the
> TEC II allows me to control all the basic functions any EFI and IC
> system handles, such as the two primary ones of AF mixture and  
> Ignition
> Advance through the rpm range at different loads.  I control the  
> nitrous
> part of my intercooling system with the one GPO that is available, and
> use a separate variable boost controller for the methanol  
> injection.  If
> I had the TEC III, I would use one of its 4 GPOs to control the  
> methanol
> as well.  On high boost I get around 800 hp safely.
>
> On the supercharged and twin turbo charged Shadrach Mustang
> <http://www.shadrachmustang.com/> 4.6L engines, we use Diablo software
> that allows us to modify the Ford ECU.  Additionally, we use an
> inexpensive piggy back system to control the secondary injectors above
> 2000 rpm. Programming it is also pretty straight forward (mind you I
> haven't done it, but have watched over one of our two tuners as they
> dialed in the engines).
>
> For the twin turbo which has the 8 stack Kinsler fuel injection  
> manifold
> with duel banks of injectors, we plumb each stack to a common vacuum
> block with which to control vacuum related functions.  Brakes are
> assisted by a separate vacuum pump.
>
> More relevant to this discussion, is what we do with the new Boss
> Mustang.  On the 429 (really 600 ci) all aluminum clone Ford Hemi   
> Boss
> Shadrach prototype we eliminate, for now, the Ford ECU from  
> controlling
> the engine functions entirely and use a FAST system to control the  
> twin
> Barry Grant four barrel throttle body fuel injection system and the  
> MSD
> ignition system (see pic at Boss 429
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Earkoch/images/Boss%20429/429%20Boss%20car%20assembly%20052209%20006%20%28Small%29.jpg 
> >).
> The FAST system is a good system and works fine.  This engine develops
> 805 hp at 6,500 rpm and 730 ftlbs of torque at 5,200 rpm on pump gas.
>
> However, the FAST system doesn't do anything different than my TEC  
> II in
> controlling the basic functions of AF ratio and advance.  Yeah the  
> FAST
> system has a finer matrix to plug in numbers, full sequential  
> multiport
> injection control (obviously we don't use it), and a more "pleasant"
> user interface. But when all is said and done they do essentially the
> same basic thing, optimize the fuel delivery at various loads with a
> safe spark advance.
>
> By the way, for the entry 429 Boss hemi iron block engine, we are
> probably going to use the Professional-Product's Powerjection III
> Throttle body engine management system that can be seen by clicking on
> Powerjection III.
> <http://www.professional-products.com/new.html>
> This is a complete system with everything necessary to install it, and
> sells retail for $2,400.   While we haven't tested it as yet, if it
> works as advertised it is the least expensive complete EFI system on  
> the
> market.
>
> For those folks that want to take the time and read the TEC III  
> manuals
> (TEC^3 ; Installation and Calibration Manual
> <http://electromotive-inc.com/pdf_files/tec3.pdf> , TEC^3r Users Guide
> <http://electromotive-inc.com/pdf_files/tec3r.pdf>) or the TEC II  
> manual
> (TEC-1, TEC-II, and HPV-3b Installation and Calibration Manual
> <http://electromotive-inc.com/pdf_files/tec99.pdf>), aside from the
> specifics that relate to the TEC III or TEC II and how you plug in the
> numbers, they are a good primer on the variables that a total engine
> management system allows you to control.  That manual and several  
> others
> are free to download at the Electromotive site
> <http://www.distributorless.com/>.
>
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
>
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