[DeTomaso] efi horse power gain

Göran Malmberg hemipanter at hemipanter.se
Mon Aug 10 01:35:29 EDT 2009 

Are they using 8 MSD boxes?
Goran

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
För Kirby Schrader
Skickat: den 10 augusti 2009 00:48
Till: Ken Green
Kopia: wkooiman at earthlink.net; De Tomaso List
Ämne: Re: [DeTomaso] efi horse power gain


Mike and Jack have done coil on plug with their cars. They are using  
the TEC3r to trigger an MSD.
I haven't done that yet. I may, but it runs fine, so... if it ain't  
broke, don't fix it?

:-)


On 9 Aug 2009, at 9:59 AM, Ken Green wrote:

> The only system architecture limitation I know of for the TEC-3 is  
> that you can't do coil on plug with it.  I even called them to make  
> sure.  FAST has an add on module for coil on plug.  I guess that's  
> an opinion thing and a lot of engine have waste spark ignitions and  
> work fine, but it seem like the manufactures have gone coil-on plug  
> for most the big engines?
>
> Ken
>
> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] efi horse power gain
> To: "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Cc: wkooiman at earthlink.net, "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 10:28 PM
>
> Boyd,
>
> TEC3r does sequential or batch. Whatever you want. 2, 4, 6, 8, 12
> cylinders, turbos, superchargers, etc. etc.
> I'm using sequential injection with a cam sync.
>
> Speed of the system... Don't know what that _really_ means or how it
> pertains to performance.
> Every system out there will react fast enough to what's happening with
> the engine.
> Otherwise, it wouldn't work and nobody would buy it. Dunno... just
> speaking as an electronics engineer.
>
> TEC3r will handle 16 injectors. How many do you need?
> :-)
>
> My system has fuel rails on the inside (GT40), but the Pantera has
> outside fuel rails.
> Older system.... I don't know why fuel rails on the outside are a 'no
> no', but am willing to learn!
> Did he give you a reason why?
>
> Let me guess... longer rails/fuel lines and more fuel pressure
> variation from front to back?
> That's the only thing I can think of...
>
> The biggest issue I have with the Pantera setup is I have a side pull
> linkage.
> Same as some Weber setups. It works well. I hardly ever had to adjust
> it.
> But it leads to a really 'snappy' low RPM throttle response.
>
> The GT40 has the latest TWM progressive center pull linkage with the
> 'wheel'. Make sure you go with this!
> It's the 'cat's pajamas', as my Mother used to say.... really a
> pleasure to drive.
>
> Bosch injectors are definitely the way to go. I use Marren Motorsports
> for a lot of EFI stuff.
> http://www.injector.com/
>
> They will calibrate the injectors if the ones you have are used or you
> just want to be sure. You send them in, they send them back.
> I had one on the #2 cylinder of the Pantera that was a couple of
> percent off and would run leaner than the rest.
> They fixed that. No, I don't know what they do to 'fix' them. Never
> asked.
>
> Both my systems use fuel return.
>
> What else do you want to know?
> :-)
>
> Oh! And yes, I agree with you. If you're going to spend the money, go
> the right way and all the way.
>
> Of course, after the hassles I had with my GT40 (the harness, mostly),
> lots of the Space City guys give me a hard time.
> Individuals will NOT be named, of course.
> ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Kirby
>
>
> On 8 Aug 2009, at 7:00 PM, boyd casey wrote:
>
> > I have been speaking to Gary at twm induction and they actually  
> use a
> > weber intake manifold and machine it to adapt the injectors . He  
> said
> > that the FAST computer was the way togo now adays. The system Mad  
> dawg
> > has was he top of the line back when he got it but the new fast  
> system
> > is supposed to be supierior. The important factors are sequentail
> > injection vs batch injection, the speed of the system and how many
> > injectors it cam control. Also lots of the Weber style EFI have the
> > injectors and fuel rails on the out side and thats supposed to be  
> a no
> > no. Another big factor is the injectors. Gary told me the Bosch were
> > far supierior.  ( cost around $300 or $400 more then the lucas
> > injectors. Many of the systems are designed as EFI for dummies. No
> > fuel return, no computer pprogram adjustmment neccesary. It seems to
> > me if your going to bite the bulet for $6500.00 + you may as well do
> > it right or just  go with a holley commander for around $2000.00.
> >
> > Boyd
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Kirby
Schrader<kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >>
> >> Ah, yes.... another person doing
> >> IR EFI on a GT40. Let us know how you get on!
> >> Jack Houpe, Mike Trusty and myself all have a TWM setup with a
> >> TEC3r (Jack uses a TEC2)
> >> on our GT40's.
> >> Each one of us attacked the twin tank fuel feed setup differently.
> >> I need to re-plumb my fuel system. I have a 'better idea' than what
> >> I am using now.
> >> On 8 Aug 2009, at 11:23 AM, Julian Kift wrote:
> >>
> >> I am in the initial stages of an EFI retrofit on the GT40 with a
> >> TWM IR
> >> system. Even after getting a good deal on the TWM throttle bodies
> >> and the
> >> ECU it has cost far more than I care to tell in $$ and time (it's
> >> all the
> >> little stuff, plus the complexity of twin tanks in that application
> >> requiring a swirl pot etc.). I constantly ask myself why I didn't
> >> just buy a
> >> Weber 48IDF set up and may even still do that.
> >>
> >> For the Pantera I have a Kinsler mechanical unit that I will
> >> convert to
> >> EFI and the ECU will be the DTAFAST (out of the UK), it is as
> >> capable as a
> >> MOTEC at about half the cost.
> >>
> >> http://www.dtafast.co.uk/
> >>
> >> Julian
> >>> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:54:49 -0400
> >>> From: boyd411 at gmail.com
> >>> To: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> >>> CC: kirby.schrader at gmail.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] efi horse power gain
> >>>
> >>> The EFI set up I am looking at and considering is basicaly the  
> same
> >>> one Mad dawg has. It is a twm Induction stack (looks like webers)
> >>> The
> >>> ECU I am considering is the FAST ( I spoke to dawg and this is a
> >>> more
> >>> upto date ECU then he has) Another key component are the
> >>> injectors.The
> >>> two things I don't have are Mike Trusty and the CASH! I'm  
> working on
> >>> the cash but I don't know what to do about Mike.
> >>> Boyd
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Will
Kooiman<wkooiman at earthlink.net 
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> There's a very dramatic initial negative increase.  In most
> >>>> cases, the
> >>>> initial increase is the carbureted HP * -1.
> >>>>
> >>>> After a year or two of fiddling around, EFI catches up.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then you get smart and buy Mike Trusty a plane ticket.  You treat
> >>>> him
> >>>> right,
> >>>> feed him, and brag about how your tires hook really well.  Then
> >>>> M.T.
> >>>> fiddles
> >>>> for 15 minutes, and finally EFI surpasses your carbureted HP.
> >>>>
> >>>> But then you need better tires.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> >>>> ]
> >>>> On
> >>>> Behalf Of Charles Engles
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:46 AM
> >>>> To: boyd casey
> >>>> Cc: Kirby Schrader; detomaso at realbig.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] efi horse power gain
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear Boyd,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>                  Perhaps Kirby Schrader would comment on this.
> >>>> He had
> >>>> one
> >>>>
> >>>> of the Haltech EFI systems installed on his already healthy
> >>>> engine back
> >>>> in
> >>>> the mid nineties and he has first hand experience about the
> >>>> before and
> >>>> after
> >>>>
> >>>> performance.  He was very happy with the change.
> >>>>
> >>>>                             Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >>>> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 10:50 PM
> >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] efi horse power gain
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Can anyone tell me what kind of horsepower increase one could
> >>>>> expect
> >>>>> from the addition of a quality professionally setup sequential
> >>>>> efi to
> >>>>> a Cleveland  engine?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Boyd
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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