[DeTomaso] efi horse power gain

boyd casey boyd411 at gmail.com
Sun Aug 9 16:45:55 EDT 2009


I wanted to clarify that the statements I made about the preference
for the fast system , the importance of a "fast processor" etc are not
statements of fact, I don't claim to be an authority on the subject by
any stretch of the imagination. I am only repeating what I have been
told by vendors or reading in articles on EFI systems. As far as the
ability to run 18 injectors I think the point the author was trying to
make was that some of the less advanced ECU's didn't have the capacity
to handle multiple injectors individually so you where prevented from
using sequential injection.  The statement about the "inside fuel
rails" was referring  the placement of the injectors  specifically in
a weber style "stack " system. The authors opinion was that the
injectors should be placed on the inside with the injectors between
the stacks as opposed to being outside the stacks.
Again this is what I was told and it was in specific reference to a
351 Cleveland. The reason I started this post was because the list of
things I don't know about EFI is allot longer then the list of things
I do know and before I drop $5000.+++ on an EFI setup I want to know
as much as I can. I have heard to many stories of people who spent a
small fortune on a EFI set up only to be very disappointed in the
results. When I receive information from a vendor it always favors
their system, (no surprise there!)  so I am suspect and would like to
get  first hand information from fellow Pantera owners before I pull
the trigger.
Boyd



2009/8/9 Göran Malmberg <hemipanter at hemipanter.se>:
> You mean to be perfectly "on line" without delay when programming?
> If so, it is the "Dos problem" which most ecu:s is working on.
> Windows makes for a delay which is very disturbing. However
> W95 is Ok at least with Haltech.
> Goran
>
>
> The guys that did it commented on the FAST system as being good from a
> software point of view.
> However, once I showed him the Electromotive software and where things
> were, he had no problem adjusting it.
>
> One thing that surprised me... I had 34 degrees max of ignition. We
> found it made more HP at 30 degrees.
>
> FWIW,
> Kirby
>
> On 9 Aug 2009, at 2:29 AM, Ken Green wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what the difference is between Bosch and Lucas, but if
>> you are going after high HP, I think you want low impedance (aka,
>> peak & hold) injectors.  A lot of stock ECUs can't provide the power
>> for low impedance injectors, but both the TEC-3 and FAST ECUs can.
>> The advantage is that a low impedance injector opens quicker, so if
>> you have a high flow rate injector, you can control it better at low
>> fuel demand.
>>
>> I have been told that it is easier to tune the FAST ECU, but that
>> may depend on who does the tuning.  I think you can actually spend
>> more on dyno tuning than what you pay for the ECU, so it's probably
>> best to get hooked up with an experienced local tuner and get the
>> ECU he likes to tune.  It also may be important that the tuner has
>> done 8 stack systems, but I'm just speculating on that.  Like
>> someone said, an EFI system is only as good as it's tuned.
>>
>> And, every expert you ask will give a different opinion.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] efi horse power gain
>> To: "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
>> Cc: wkooiman at earthlink.net, "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 5:00 PM
>>
>> I have been speaking to Gary at twm induction and they actually use a
>> weber intake manifold and machine it to adapt the injectors . He said
>> that the FAST computer was the way togo now adays. The system Mad dawg
>> has was he top of the line back when he got it but the new fast system
>> is supposed to be supierior. The important factors are sequentail
>> injection vs batch injection, the speed of the system and how many
>> injectors it cam control. Also lots of the Weber style EFI have the
>> injectors and fuel rails on the out side and thats supposed to be a no
>> no. Another big factor is the injectors. Gary told me the Bosch were
>> far supierior.  ( cost around $300 or $400 more then the lucas
>> injectors. Many of the systems are designed as EFI for dummies. No
>> fuel return, no computer pprogram adjustmment neccesary. It seems to
>> me if your going to bite the bulet for $6500.00 + you may as well do
>> it right or just  go with a holley commander for around $2000.00.
>>
>> Boyd
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Kirby
> Schrader<kirby.schrader at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Ah, yes.... another person doing
>> > IR EFI on a GT40. Let us know how you get on!
>> > Jack Houpe, Mike Trusty and myself all have a TWM setup with a
>> TEC3r (Jack uses a TEC2)
>> > on our GT40's.
>> > Each one of us attacked the twin tank fuel feed setup differently.
>> > I need to re-plumb my fuel system. I have a 'better idea' than
>> what I am using now.
>> > On 8 Aug 2009, at 11:23 AM, Julian Kift wrote:
>> >
>> > I am in the initial stages of an EFI retrofit on the GT40 with a
>> TWM IR
>> > system. Even after getting a good deal on the TWM throttle bodies
>> and the
>> > ECU it has cost far more than I care to tell in $$ and time (it's
>> all the
>> > little stuff, plus the complexity of twin tanks in that application
>> > requiring a swirl pot etc.). I constantly ask myself why I didn't
>> just buy a
>> > Weber 48IDF set up and may even still do that.
>> >
>> > For the Pantera I have a Kinsler mechanical unit that I will
>> convert to
>> > EFI and the ECU will be the DTAFAST (out of the UK), it is as
>> capable as a
>> > MOTEC at about half the cost.
>> >
>> > http://www.dtafast.co.uk/
>> >
>> > Julian
>> >> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:54:49 -0400
>> >> From: boyd411 at gmail.com
>> >> To: wkooiman at earthlink.net
>> >> CC: kirby.schrader at gmail.com; detomaso at realbig.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] efi horse power gain
>> >>
>> >> The EFI set up I am looking at and considering is basicaly the same
>> >> one Mad dawg has. It is a twm Induction stack (looks like webers)
>> The
>> >> ECU I am considering is the FAST ( I spoke to dawg and this is a
>> more
>> >> upto date ECU then he has) Another key component are the
>> injectors.The
>> >> two things I don't have are Mike Trusty and the CASH! I'm working
>> on
>> >> the cash but I don't know what to do about Mike.
>> >> Boyd
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Will
>> Kooiman<wkooiman at earthlink.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > There's a very dramatic initial negative increase.  In most
>> cases, the
>> >> > initial increase is the carbureted HP * -1.
>> >> >
>> >> > After a year or two of fiddling around, EFI catches up.
>> >> >
>> >> > Then you get smart and buy Mike Trusty a plane ticket.  You
>> treat him
>> >> > right,
>> >> > feed him, and brag about how your tires hook really well.  Then
>> M.T.
>> >> > fiddles
>> >> > for 15 minutes, and finally EFI surpasses your carbureted HP.
>> >> >
>> >> > But then you need better tires.
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> ]
>> >> > On
>> >> > Behalf Of Charles Engles
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:46 AM
>> >> > To: boyd casey
>> >> > Cc: Kirby Schrader; detomaso at realbig.com
>> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] efi horse power gain
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear Boyd,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >                  Perhaps Kirby Schrader would comment on
>> this.   He had
>> >> > one
>> >> >
>> >> > of the Haltech EFI systems installed on his already healthy
>> engine back
>> >> > in
>> >> > the mid nineties and he has first hand experience about the
>> before and
>> >> > after
>> >> >
>> >> > performance.  He was very happy with the change.
>> >> >
>> >> >                             Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> >> > To: "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> >> > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 10:50 PM
>> >> > Subject: [DeTomaso] efi horse power gain
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Can anyone tell me what kind of horsepower increase one could
>> expect
>> >> >> from the addition of a quality professionally setup sequential
>> efi to
>> >> >> a Cleveland  engine?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Boyd
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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