[DeTomaso] fixing the economy (npc content)

[Curt Hall]

How about...you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours?

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Steve Hawkins <shawkins777 at comcast.net> wrote:

From: Steve Hawkins <shawkins777 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] fixing the economy (npc content)
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 2:41 PM

This begs the question why did the Government invest $20 billion in a
company doomed to fail?  Might it be just to gain control?

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Gray Gregory
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:46 AM
To: Robert Kirk; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] fixing the economy (with p content)


I don't know what facts you injected here but you have a valid point about
what is the actual value of the company. The stock price does indeed reflect
the value of the company, but it only reflects it for that moment in time
that shares actually trade hands at a given price and at this point everyone
knows GM is no longer viable as a going concern in it's current form, so
the
stock price is really just speculation on what kind of bailout the company
might be able to get from the Government.

The fundamental problem at GM is that it owes many times more than it is
worth under virtually any valuation model you could use. The company owes
somewhere between $40 and $45 billion and there's no way it's worth
anywhere
near that. Of that debt it's about equally split between what's owed to
the
employee pension plan (+ or - $20 billion) and what's owed to the bond
holders. The other things you mention are small by comparison and with the
exception of the aircraft leases are not debts at all they're just
operating
expenses and would go away immediately if the company shut down. 

I don't see any solution other than bankruptcy, but I'm sure the
"effete
corps" has other ideas.

Gray

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Robert Kirk
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 7:51 AM
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] fixing the economy (with p content)

I always hate to wade into a good conversation with facts but GM stock does
not reflect the value of the company.  It simply reflects the value of the
stock at a given point.  The facts suggest  that GM owes more than its worth
and much of that debt is to its workers but also includes its salaries and
bonuses to top management and of course the corporate jet leases.  
 
I don't know if any of you are old enough to remember real railroads but
what is happening to GM etc is similar.  Both the union and management are
content to bleed all they can from the dieing animal and leave
taxpayers what's left.  On the other hand Conrail and Amtrak have been
doing
a mostly adequate job.  I am just puzzled at why it costs as much to take an
Amtrak as it does to fly anywhere other than the land of the "effete corps
of impudent snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals" (east
coast
corridor)...but then again that's why we have our cats and gooses.
 
The more clever remarks above are via Nixon era speech writers William
Safire, Pat Buchanan and/or Sprio Agnew himself.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
www.kirks-auto.com
 


      
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