[DeTomaso] Cobra Kit Recommendation and Mustang for Sale
scott black
timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com
Sun Sep 28 21:41:32 EDT 2008
All,
We represent Shelby Autos, so I am a bit biased. But so much of the so called info on the CSX4000 cars is not true in this thread. There are indeed, as Curt pointed out, differences. And all the cars are significantly worked at the shop in LV. In fact, you can come to the factory and see all the work they do on the cars.
I am not panning any other products. But misinformation should not be spread about the cars being the same, not built by Shelby, poor quality or sloppiness. And the bottom line is do you want a real Shelby, or a replica. If you are cool with a replica, then get one that fits your budget and driving habits to enjoy. Regardless of your choice, please do take it out and drive it, just like your Pantera.
TimePiece Public Relations
Dallas - Houston - New York
www.timepiecepr.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
To: garth_rodericks at yahoo.com; detomaso at realbig.com; michaelsavga at gmail.com; MikeLDrew at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:47:37 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cobra Kit Recommendation and Mustang for Sale
There is a (New) Shelby Cobra Replica For Sale at one of the Consignment Car places in Dublin Calif....$95,000 with out Engine and Trans.! OUCH!
--- On Thu, 9/25/08, MikeLDrew at aol.com <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
From: MikeLDrew at aol.com <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cobra Kit Recommendation and Mustang for Sale
To: garth_rodericks at yahoo.com, detomaso at realbig.com, michaelsavga at gmail.com
Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 1:05 PM
In a message dated 9/25/08 12 09 15, garth_rodericks at yahoo.com writes:
> If your friend want's a well engineered car to drive, buy a
Superformance!
> The ERA and
> Contemporary are both high quality kits, and arguably the most accurate
> replicas
> available, but they also faithfully reproduce the same engineering/design
> flaws of the
> original - not than any of that can't be worked out.
>
>>>Absolutely not true. The original 427 Cobra used a
'modern' chassis
layout consisting of upper and lower A-arms with coil-over shocks, front and
back.
Both the ERA and Contemporary make due with a relatively antiquated Jaguar
E-type-derived suspension, consisting (usually) of torsion bars in the front,
and in the rear there is a lower A-arm ONLY; the driveshaft doubles as the
upper control arm.
The ERA has a more accurate body layout; the Contemporary takes liberties on
the interior side for some reason. The rear 'firewall' is pushed
forward
which gives a bigger trunk, but it also makes it much more apparent (to those
who
know) that the car isn't genuine.
>
> >As for the Shelby kit, it's not a "Shelby" any more than
having the man's
> signature on my
> Mustang Glove Box makes it a Shelby GT-350. Yeah, you get a
"Shelby" serial
> number
> and the old fart's signature on the dashboard; and maybe bragging
rights
> that it's a
> "Shelby" replica of a Cobra. And FWIW, it's a licensed
name; Shelby is being
> paid for the
> use of his name. He's not building these cars or kits.
>
>>>Again, absolutely not true. The Shelby Cobras are (unlike almost
all
others, except Kirkham) exactly authentic to the originals, with all the
baggage
that goes along with that. Their 427 Cobras have the same coil-spring
chassis as the originals, while their 289 versions use the transverse leaf
spring,
again same as the originals. Elements of the car are built in South Africa;
the turn-key cars are completed at the Shelby facility in Las Vegas. Several
years ago POCA Fun Rally attendees were given the opportunity to tour the
place and saw dozens and dozens of 427 and 289 Cobras in various stages of
completion.
> > But, you get to pay a handsome
> premium for that name, the "CSX" serial number, and his
sloppy signature.
> The "Shelby"
> Cobra kit (continuation cars? Hahahaha) is just another kit, that happens
to
> cost a
> lot more!
>
>>>Also not true. Shelby's continuation car is priced just about
the same
as Superformance. In fact, Lance Stander who is the owner/CEO of
Superformance is also a Shelby dealer, and sells both cars side-by-side at his
Irvine, CA
facility. He showed me around last year and showed me the exact differences
between the two cars. The Superformance arguably has a slightly better
chassis/suspension, while the Shelby is far more authentic (the only
improvement
from original spec is modern Baer brakes, although original Girlings can be had
for an additional cost).
> As a matter of fact, the aluminum alloy bodies come from Kirkham - I
don't
> know
> about the fiberglass bodies or the chassis though.
>
>>>True. Shelby's cars are set up to have fiberglass bodies
(which, like
the chassis and etc. are manufactured in South Africa I believe), but if
customers want an aluminum body, Shelby sources those from Kirkham. For a
much
greater additional charge, you can also have a hand-made English-built aluminum
body, which is much less perfect than the Kirkham body, and thus technically
more 'accurate' since the original Cobras featured tolorences of plus
or minus a
week.
> So, save some money and buy a car
> from Kirkham or Superformance - the quality will be equal to or better
than
> anything you'd
> get from "Shelby."
>
>>>Again, not true. At least, not exactly. A Shelby replica with a
fiberglass body will be every bit as 'good' as a Superformance or a
Kirkham. It
will arguably look better, and may be slightly more antiquated in terms of
driving/handling, but it will still be an excellent car.
>
> The Kirkham is an excellent high quality replica - like getting a modern
> Shelby replica
> without the "Shelby" premium price tag. I'd definitely talk
to the Kirkham
> brothers to see
> what kind of package they can put together.
>
>>>Unfortunately they aren't cheap. Kirkham cars all have
aluminum bodies
and thus are just about as expensive as the Shelby cars fitted with Kirkham
bodies. I went on their website and clicked on the appropriate boxes to get a
car that was just about complete, except for engine, gearbox, and differential,
and the price came to right at $60K.
>
> >And an assembled and slightly used Superformance that can be had for
$40-45
> is a
> bargain. Find one you like, then spend a little time and money to freshen
it
> up. I'm sure
> you won't be disappointed.
>
>>>That's absolutely true. A used Superformance is definitely
the best buy
on the market, as long as you can find one with the specification you prefer.
>
> And one more consideration... I had the opportunity to run around LVMS
in
> Vegas a few
> years back at the Shelby Convention in a beautiful Contemporary Cobra with
a
> 427 and a
> 289 FIA replica by Unique Motorcars with a nicely built 302. The 427 had
> amazing torque
> and acceleration. It was an absolute monster when coming out of a turn and
> going down
> the straight. But then you had to stand on the brakes at every corner to
> slow the thing
> down enough to go safely through the turn. The 289 FIA didn't have
the
> acceleration of the
> 427, but was a much better balanced car that carried a lot more speed
> through the turns.
> At the end of the day, the 289 FIA was my favorite if I were to build/buy
a
> Cobra replica.
> So look at and drive as many examples as possible!
>
> >>>That's mostly likely down to driver abilities. The
weight differential
between a 289 and 427 isn't all that great, and the 427 has a better
suspension
than the 289. All other things being equal, the 427 will mostly likely be
faster around a circuit, and perhaps easier to drive (although neither one is
what you would call 'easy' to drive--lots of torque and a 90-inch
wheelbase
means you're right on the edge all the time).
Once nice thing about the Superformance cars is that they come with power
brakes. It takes a LOT of right-leg effort to stop my Contemporary, which
lacks
this helpful feature.
Mike
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