[DeTomaso] Cobra Kit Recommendation and Mustang for Sale

Garth Rodericks garth_rodericks at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 25 17:59:18 EDT 2008


>> If your friend want's a well engineered car to drive, buy a 
>> Superformance!  The ERA and Contemporary are both high quality kits, 
>> and arguably the most accurate replicas available, but they also 
>> faithfully reproduce the same engineering/design flaws of the original -
>> not that any of that can't be worked out.

> >>>Absolutely not true.  The original 427 Cobra used a 'modern' chassis 
> layout consisting of upper and lower A-arms with coil-over shocks, front 
> and back.  Both the ERA and Contemporary make due with a relatively 
> antiquated Jaguar E-type-derived suspension, consisting (usually) of 
> torsion bars in the front, and in the rear there is a lower A-arm ONLY; 
> the driveshaft doubles as the upper control arm.

++++ What's not true? That Superformance has a better engineered chassis? That ERA and Contemporary are two of the most accurate fiberglass kits on
the market, save for perhaps the "Shelby" kit?  Or my statement about
engineering/design flaws?  Yeah, the 427 Cobra was considered to have
a "modern" computer designed chassis layout, but the car was still well
known for it's twitchy handling and spin-on-a-dime tendancy. And it's
nothing that modern tires, bars, bushings, springs and shocks can't
improve. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have either an original or any of
these kits. But the Superformance is still the better driving car!

> >>>The ERA has a more accurate body layout; the Contemporary takes 
> liberties on the interior side for some reason.  The rear 'firewall' is 
> pushed forward which gives a bigger trunk, but it also makes it much 
> more apparent (to those who know) that the car isn't genuine.

++++FWIW, Contemporary also took liberties with the body by modifying the 
wheel openings a bit to close the gap between the tire and body - makes 
for a cleaner appearance.


>> As for the Shelby kit, it's not a "Shelby" any more than having the 
>> man's signature on my Mustang Glove Box makes it a Shelby GT-350. Yeah, 
>> you get a "Shelby" serial number and the old fart's signature on the 
>> dashboard; and maybe bragging rights that it's a "Shelby" replica of a 
>> Cobra. And FWIW, it's a licensed name; Shelby is being paid for the use 
>> of his name. He's not building these cars or kits. 


> >>>Again, absolutely not true.  The Shelby Cobras are (unlike almost all 
> others, except Kirkham) exactly authentic to the originals, with all the > baggage that goes along with that.  Their 427 Cobras have the same coil-
> spring chassis as the originals, while their 289 versions use the 
> transverse leaf spring, again same as the originals.  Elements of the 
> car are built in South Africa; the turn-key cars are completed at the 
> Shelby facility in Las Vegas.  Several years ago POCA Fun Rally 
> attendees were given the opportunity to tour the place and saw dozens 
> and dozens of 427 and 289 Cobras in various stages of completion.

++++Again, not sure what's not true.  So, some of the cars are built in Vegas; some or bits are built in South Africa. Who cares? It's just another replica manufacturer who has use of the Shelby name. Carrol Shelby has no part of the manufacture of those replicas or the management of the business. It's just his name, but hey, they are fetching big dollar$ at Barrett-Jackson.

>> But, you get to pay a handsome premium for that name, the "CSX" serial 
>> number, and his sloppy signature.  The "Shelby" Cobra kit (continuation 
>> cars? Hahahaha) is just another kit, that happens to cost a lot more!

> >>>Also not true.  Shelby's continuation car is priced just about the 
> same as Superformance.  In fact, Lance Stander who is the owner/CEO of 
> Superformance is also a Shelby dealer, and sells both cars side-by-side 
> at his Irvine, CA facility. He showed me around last year and showed me 
> the exact differences between the two cars.  The Superformance arguably 
> has a slightly better chassis/suspension, while the Shelby is far more 
> authentic (the only improvement from original spec is modern Baer 
> brakes, although original Girlings can be had for an additional cost).

++++ Perhaps things have changed.  When I priced the two vehicles a few
years ago - Superformance and Shelby - a comparably equipped Shelby
carried a 40% premium (or more) over the cost of the Superformance. That's
the way it was. Glad to hear their priced closer now. And, it doesn't
suprise me that Lance Stander is also a Shelby dealer, after all
Superformance now provides Shelby with their "Shelby" Daytona Coupe.


>> As a matter of fact, the aluminum alloy bodies come from Kirkham - I 
>> don't know about the fiberglass bodies or the chassis though. 

> >>>True.  Shelby's cars are set up to have fiberglass bodies (which, 
> like the chassis and etc. are manufactured in South Africa I believe), 
> but if customers want an aluminum body, Shelby sources those from 
> Kirkham.  For a much greater additional charge, you can also have a hand-
> made English-built aluminum body, which is much less perfect than the 
> Kirkham body, and thus technically more 'accurate' since the original 
> Cobras featured tolorences of plus or minus a week.


>> So, save some money and buy a car from Kirkham or Superformance - the 
>> quality will be equal to or better than anything you'd get from 
>> "Shelby."

>>>Again, not true.  At least, not exactly.  A Shelby replica with a fiberglass body will be every bit as 'good' as a Superformance or a Kirkham.  It will arguably look better, and may be slightly more antiquated in terms of driving/handling, but it will still be an excellent car.

++++Uh, yes it is true. Although I may have gone too far to say the
Superformace would be a better quality car than the Shelby. Both built in
South Africa (some coming from the same manufacturing facility) so fit and
finish should be the same. So I agree that the build quality of a
Superformance will be comparable to a "Shelby."  And the build quality of
a Kirkham will depend on the owner, unless the deluxe roller is ordered.
So the key difference is that the "Shelby" replica will look more
authentic perhaps to someone who knows enough about these cars to
distinguish, but not "better."


>> The Kirkham is an excellent high quality replica - like getting a 
>> modern Shelby replica without the "Shelby" premium price tag. I'd 
>> definitely talk to the Kirkham brothers to see what kind of package 
>> they can put together.

> >>>Unfortunately they aren't cheap.  Kirkham cars all have aluminum 
> bodies and thus are just about as expensive as the Shelby cars fitted 
> with Kirkham bodies.  I went on their website and clicked on the 
> appropriate boxes to get a car that was just about complete, except for 
> engine, gearbox, and differential, and the price came to right at $60K.


>> And an assembled and slightly used Superformance that can be had for 
>> $40-45 is a bargain. Find one you like, then spend a little time and 
>> money to freshen it up. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

> >>>That's absolutely true.  A used Superformance is definitely the best 
> buy on the market, as long as you can find one with the specification 
> you prefer.


>> And one more consideration...  I had the opportunity to run around LVMS 
>> in Vegas a few years back at the Shelby Convention in a beautiful 
>> Contemporary Cobra with a 427 and a 289 FIA replica by Unique Motorcars 
>> with a nicely built 302. The 427 had amazing torque and acceleration. 
>> It was an absolute monster when coming out of a turn and going down the 
>> straight. But then you had to stand on the brakes at every corner to 
>> slow the thing down enough to go safely through the turn.  The 289 FIA 
>> didn't have the acceleration of the 427, but was a much better balanced 
>> car that carried a lot more speed through the turns. At the end of the 
>> day, the 289 FIA was my favorite if I were to build/buy a Cobra 
>> replica. So look at and drive as many examples as possible!

> >>>That's mostly likely down to driver abilities.  The weight 
> differential between a 289 and 427 isn't all that great, and the 427 has 
> a better suspension than the 289.  

++++Not true. The suspensions between the Contemporary 427 and the Unique
289 FIA are nearly identical - adjustable coil overs up front, rack and
pinion steering, Jaguar salisbury rear end, etc. And the weight difference
between the 302 and 427 is nearly 200 pounds, which when placed on the
nose of a car with a 90" wheelbase can have a significant impact on
handling. So, driver abilities aside, two Cobra replicas with 90-inch
wheelbases and identical suspensions, the car that is lighter in the nose
by almost 200 pounds will be a better balanced and better handling car
(all other things being equal).

> All other things being equal, the 427 will mostly likely be faster 
> around a circuit, and perhaps easier to drive (although neither one is 
> what you would call 'easy' to drive--lots of torque and a 90-inch 
> wheelbase means you're right on the edge all the time).

++++The 427 would be faster perhaps, but not easier to drive. But any car
with lots of torque and a 90 inch wheelbase would provide lots of
excitement. Anyway, just sharing one man's driving impressions and
encouraging the prospective buyer to look at and drive as many different
cars as he can (just like buying a Pantera) - it's the only way he'll know
what he wants.

> Once nice thing about the Superformance cars is that they come with 
> power brakes.  It takes a LOT of right-leg effort to stop my 
> Contemporary, which lacks this helpful feature.
> 
> Mike



      



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