[DeTomaso] LEADED RACE FUEL & UNLEADED FUEL MIX???Re: PANTERA RAN GREAT

Tue Sep 23 16:19:39 EDT 2008

Leaded might affect a/f sensors - maybe we'll hear from Mike T or  
another EFI type . . . .

Quoting Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>:

> PS the race fuel was leaded 110
>
> Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:  Kirby, MikeT, All
>
> I'm sure what fuel I had in the Pantera had no impact on 'cold' run   
> condition because the engine ran beautifully from start to finish   
> sunday.
>
> One of the racers in Ely asked me if I was running 'leaded race' car  
>  with the EFI system. I told him yea that I was running a mix of 92   
> unleaded with leaded race fuel and he suggested it wasn't advisable.
>
> True not true?
>
> Comments?
>
> Dawg
>
> Kirby Schrader wrote:
> Well, uhhhhh.... OK.....
>
> First, I'm pleased 'cold in Texas' was so funny! My tongue in cheek
> comments don't usually merit such a response! And, by the way, even in
> Houston it gets below freezing.
>
> In any case....
>
> 'Cold' to an EFI system means almost anything below about 50F. A
> temperature at which the combustion process needs more fuel instead of
> air. (Everyone with a carb uses a choke to compensate.... duh.)
>
> I doubt MD's car has experienced this since the initial EFI
> installation in sunny CA. Being 'not so warm' in Nevada was the first
> time he's experienced the running rich phenomenon (assumption!)
>
> In any case, I stand by my recommendation to MD.
>
> In fact, an even easier solution would be just set the parameters at
> half the values they currently are set and and then see if the car
> still starts and runs OK the next time it's 'cold' outside. I'll bet
> it will work fine. In fact, it may still even be too rich. If so, half
> them again.
>
> Secondly, Mike.... Ice may fake out the air temp sensor (which is easy
> enough to get to), but the actual air temp going into the combustion
> chamber wouldn't change. And don't forget the coolant/engine
> temperature. That is part of the cold start setup as well.
>
> You really do need 'cold' air and 'cold' engine and coolant to adjust
> the cold start parameters correctly. Which means a trial and error
> approach each 'cold' morning.
>
> Kirby (worked in Sweden at 40 below which is _cold_) Schrader
>
> PS: 40 below is 40 below. Durango or Sweden.
> ;-)
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:40 PM, wrote:
>>
>> Cold in Texas? PuuulllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZ.
>>
>> We have already had morning in the 30s - drop it off for a few days
>> and I'll wring it out for you!
>>
>> cold in texas BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - I don't care who you are, that's funny.
>>
>>
>> Quoting Kirby Schrader :
>>
>>> Asa,
>>>
>>> The Electromotive default parameters for the cold start are very rich.
>>> I am assuming that they haven't been touched...
>>>
>>> In fact, I have turned mine off completely on the GT40 and haven't had
>>> a problem, so far.
>>> Admittedly, it isn't too cold in Texas yet.... and I might have to add
>>> some in later...
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I had the same problem 8 years ago after I installed the Haltech EFI
>>> on my Pantera.
>>> First cold morning starting up to go to work was an eye watering
>>> experience...
>>> The amount of black smoke was amazing until it warmed up.
>>>
>>> The difficult part with that tuning is you need a cold morning every
>>> day for a week or so to get it right.
>>>
>>> Kirby
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:18 AM, wrote:
>>>> Kirby,
>>>>
>>>> You know the Dog can't turn a wrench. Why do you think he needs peons
>>>> like me to come along?
>>>>
>>>> Trouble is, we didn't do any testing at all once in Ely. Even had we,
>>>> I didn't have the software loaded on my notebook (gee that would have
>>>> been a good idea), but we -did- take the Electromotive book with us in
>>>> case of real difficulty. Though again, the morning of the race, he
>>>> went to the start line and I went to the finish, so we wouldn't have
>>>> tuned it anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure he'll have Dick Drenske over soon to give it a whirl and
>>>> tweak it a bit.
>>>>
>>>> I will say though, once warmed up and having run 150 for a bit over
>>>> half an hour, it was really purring and running very nice.
>>>>
>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Kirby Schrader :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Dawg,
>>>>>
>>>>> You _know_ you can adjust that warm up sequence to make it right,
>>>>> don't you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Just get off the Crackberry and get on the laptop hooked to the ECU!
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Kirby
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22 Sep 2008, at 9:09 PM, Mad Dog Antenucci wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Morning,
>>>>>> AJ and I made it back okay.....we ran an easy 150.38 mph which WOULD
>>>>>> have been good for a trophy 12 years ago but not on Sunday....2008
>>>>>> viper ran a near perfect 149.995 mph average....still he was a candy
>>>>>> ass driving a new machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan Courtney came up with new Cobra Bullet wheels and Z rated rubber
>>>>>> but his bow tie engine started losing oil pressure and he dropped
>>>>>> out right after narrows....racers were SHOCKED to see his Pantera
>>>>>> becaus it was so rough but I have to give him credit for trying to
>>>>>> win the $5 million challenge.....AJ printed out fake bills hehe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The EFI changes were impressive....tell the efi guy that he needs to
>>>>>> lean out cold operating whatever on ECU.....one of the reasons it
>>>>>> ran so rough UNTIL it was cold according to a couple EFI people is
>>>>>> the computer thinking something is wrong because it takes so long to
>>>>>> warm up....what scared me was I used all most a quarter tank of fuel
>>>>>> (half of it race gas) to go from Ely 20 or so miles to pre grid....I
>>>>>> gased up at lund truck stop but was really worried that I would come
>>>>>> up short on run.....but soon as engine was WARM after leaving
>>>>>> starting line the fuel economy was BETTER then the old Holly double
>>>>>> pumper.........the oil temp was like 200-210 but water assuming
>>>>>> temps were correct never got to 180 UNLESS we got a bad reading....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Side skirt on drivers side on FRONT pulled loose but stayed on
>>>>>> car....so no worried there....talk to you soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daw
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mad Dawg Antenucci
>>>>>> Team Pantera Racing
>>>>>> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
>>>>>> www.teampanteraracing.com
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> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
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> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
>   The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
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