[DeTomaso] PANTERA RAN GREAT

Kirby Schrader kirby.schrader at gmail.com
Tue Sep 23 14:42:22 EDT 2008


Well, uhhhhh.... OK.....

First, I'm pleased 'cold in Texas' was so funny! My tongue in cheek
comments don't usually merit such a response! And, by the way, even in
Houston it gets below freezing.

In any case....

'Cold' to an EFI system means almost anything below about 50F. A
temperature at which the combustion process needs more fuel instead of
air. (Everyone with a carb uses a choke to compensate.... duh.)

I doubt MD's car has experienced this since the initial EFI
installation in sunny CA. Being 'not so warm' in Nevada was the first
time he's experienced the running rich phenomenon (assumption!)

In any case, I stand by my recommendation to MD.

In fact, an even easier solution would be just set the parameters at
half the values they currently are set and and then see if the car
still starts and runs OK the next time it's 'cold' outside. I'll bet
it will work fine. In fact, it may still even be too rich. If so, half
them again.

Secondly, Mike.... Ice may fake out the air temp sensor (which is easy
enough to get to), but the actual air temp going into the combustion
chamber wouldn't change. And don't forget the coolant/engine
temperature. That is part of the cold start setup as well.

You really do need 'cold' air and 'cold' engine and coolant to adjust
the cold start parameters correctly. Which means a trial and error
approach each 'cold' morning.

Kirby (worked in Sweden at 40 below which is _cold_) Schrader

PS: 40 below is 40 below. Durango or Sweden.
;-)




On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:40 PM,  <adin at frontier.net> wrote:
>
> Cold in Texas?  PuuulllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZ.
>
> We have already had morning in the 30s - drop it off for a few days
> and I'll wring it out for you!
>
> cold in texas BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - I don't care who you are, that's funny.
>
>
> Quoting Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>:
>
>> Asa,
>>
>> The Electromotive default parameters for the cold start are very rich.
>> I am assuming that they haven't been touched...
>>
>> In fact, I have turned mine off completely on the GT40 and haven't had
>> a problem, so far.
>> Admittedly, it isn't too cold in Texas yet.... and I might have to add
>> some in later...
>> :-)
>>
>> I had the same problem 8 years ago after I installed the Haltech EFI
>> on my Pantera.
>> First cold morning starting up to go to work was an eye watering
>> experience...
>> The amount of black smoke was amazing until it warmed up.
>>
>> The difficult part with that tuning is you need a cold morning every
>> day for a week or so to get it right.
>>
>> Kirby
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:18 AM,  <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
>>> Kirby,
>>>
>>> You know the Dog can't turn a wrench.  Why do you think he needs peons
>>> like me to come along?
>>>
>>> Trouble is, we didn't do any testing at all once in Ely.  Even had we,
>>> I didn't have the software loaded on my notebook (gee that would have
>>> been a good idea), but we -did- take the Electromotive book with us in
>>> case of real difficulty.  Though again, the morning of the race, he
>>> went to the start line and I went to the finish, so we wouldn't have
>>> tuned it anyway.
>>>
>>> I'm sure he'll have Dick Drenske over soon to give it a whirl and
>>> tweak it a bit.
>>>
>>> I will say though, once warmed up and having run 150 for a bit over
>>> half an hour, it was really purring and running very nice.
>>>
>>> Asa Jay
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Dawg,
>>>>
>>>> You _know_ you can adjust that warm up sequence to make it right,
>>>> don't you?
>>>>
>>>> Just get off the Crackberry and get on the laptop hooked to the ECU!
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> Kirby
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 22 Sep 2008, at 9:09 PM, Mad Dog Antenucci wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Morning,
>>>>> AJ and I made it back okay.....we ran an easy 150.38 mph which WOULD
>>>>> have been good for a trophy 12 years ago but not on Sunday....2008
>>>>> viper ran a near perfect 149.995 mph average....still he was a candy
>>>>> ass driving a new machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan Courtney came up with new Cobra Bullet wheels and Z rated rubber
>>>>> but his bow tie engine started losing oil pressure and he dropped
>>>>> out right after narrows....racers were SHOCKED to see his Pantera
>>>>> becaus it was so rough but I have to give him credit for trying to
>>>>> win the $5 million challenge.....AJ printed out fake bills hehe
>>>>>
>>>>> The EFI changes were impressive....tell the efi guy that he needs to
>>>>> lean out cold operating whatever on ECU.....one of the reasons it
>>>>> ran so rough UNTIL it was cold according to a couple EFI people is
>>>>> the computer thinking something is wrong because it takes so long to
>>>>> warm up....what scared me was I used all most a quarter tank of fuel
>>>>> (half of it race gas) to go from Ely 20 or so miles to pre grid....I
>>>>> gased up at lund truck stop but was really worried that I would come
>>>>> up short on run.....but soon as engine was WARM after leaving
>>>>> starting line the fuel economy was BETTER then the old Holly double
>>>>> pumper.........the oil temp was like 200-210 but water assuming
>>>>> temps were correct never got to 180 UNLESS we got a bad reading....
>>>>>
>>>>> Side skirt on drivers side on FRONT pulled loose but stayed on
>>>>> car....so no worried there....talk to you soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Daw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mad Dawg Antenucci
>>>>> Team Pantera Racing
>>>>>  The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
>>>>> www.teampanteraracing.com
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