[DeTomaso] Hp difference between efi and webers

Wed Oct 29 23:44:15 EDT 2008

You know, I was going to say...

...when Mike Trusty tuned Kirby's car, he introduced a problem.  Wheelspin...

The look on Kirby's face was priceless as he explained his newfound traction problems.

I didn't mention M.T. because there aren't that many people that can tune the system that well.  There might be 2 or 3 in each major city.  If you're not well connected, you're probably not going to find an expert like Mike or Dick.

I also didn't mention it because I bet Mike could tune a carburetor/distributor engine and get a few more H.P. than your average tuner, so it's not exactly comparing apples to apples.

I bet if you took the average guy on this list (myself included), and had them tune your EFI/Electromotive system, they would struggle to beat a good Holley by more than 5%.  Most likely it would take a year just to get it running right (no popping, etc.)

The key is getting an expert to dial it in.

Will.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Oct 29, 2008 12:00 PM
>To: wkooiman at earthlink.net, kenn_green at yahoo.com, detomaso at realbig.com, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hp difference between efi and webers
>
>I definately agree with my buddy 'Will' that a properly tuned & sized Holly is the best bang for the buck you can get for the Pantera.
>   
>  However, having said that your results may vary allot depending on a number of engine, induction and tune factors you decide on and who tunes the final assembly. My experience is that most engine builders (okay 99.9%) are not tuners.  Also not EFI systems are all equal. Comparing one with all is like comparing apples and oranges.
>   
>  I have your basic 20 over Cleveland block preped by engine builder, polished and ported 302B heads, 180 degree headers, 11:1 compression and a hydraulic roller cam. In otherwords not a race Pantera...rather your  basic stock Pantera! ;-]>
>   
>  We decided we were initially happy with the 381ci Cleveland based stroker 'Russ Fulps' (Russ Fulps Race Engines) had built.  I had successfully run that engine on the street and raced in open track and open road race events the last couple years which included using a blueprinted and flowed Holly 750cfm DB with a port matched and polished Rosch high rise intake. 450RWHP with pump gas.
>   
>  In preparation for the 'Mike Trusty IR-EFI' system, Russ Fulps just did a general overhaul on the existing engine to freshen it up in anticipation of adding the IR-EFI. No added power parts. Just new bearings, rings, etc. 
>   
>  My IR-EFI system was custom built and balanced by Mike Trusty, initially installed by Dick Drenske and Mike that included Dick Drenske port matching and polishing the  Kelly Cofield intake.  This combination resulted in some big HP gains that surpised everyone BUT Mike Trusty. 
>   
>  Right out of the box we gained another 40 HP over the Holly/Rosch induction. Dyno tuner gained another 15-20 or so HP in both applciations after that. In final tune this IR-EFI engine made a hair over 500RWHP. A gain of 50HP over the Holly and Rosch...again, its not a out-of-the-box IR-EFI system...but it looks purty and runs like a scalded monkey.
>   
>  fwiw
>   
>  Mad Dawg Antenucci
>  Team Pantera Racing
>  "Go Fast or Go Home" 
>   
>   
>  
>wkooiman at earthlink.net wrote:
>  I agree.
>
>There will be little difference between a properly tuned/sized
>
>a. Holley
>b. Throttle Body Injection
>c. Webers
>d. Weber-syle EFI
>
>The key word is "properly tuned/sized".
>
>Holleys work so well because they get pretty close with a minimum amount of fiddling. Webers get closer, but there's more fiddling. EFI and especially EFI with integrated spark control is the best, but most likely the Holley got at least 90% of the way there and maybe 95%. You're paying an extra $10K or so for a 5-10% improvement in power.
>
>Dollar for dollar, you'll get a lot more performance out of a good traditional build - say a stroker, CHI heads, CHI single plane intake, Holley, and a decent sized cam.
>
>I like my Webers, but I doubt that they're making more than 10% more than J.T.'s Holley. ;-)
>
>Of course, those are just power per dollar comments. There are other reasons to choose an induction system, including wow-factor, driveability, being able to keep your engine cover, and so on.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ken Green 
>>Sent: Oct 28, 2008 10:47 PM
>>To: detomaso at realbig.com, boyd casey 
>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hp difference between efi and webers
>>
>>I think the big difference is that you can have high HP, decent mileage, and a smooth running engine with EFI.  I assume that you can make as much HP with a carb, but your mileage will suck and the engine will load up at every other stop light.
>> 
>>Ken
>>
>>
>>--- On Tue, 10/28/08, boyd casey wrote:
>>
>>From: boyd casey 
>>Subject: [DeTomaso] Hp difference between efi and webers
>>To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 8:08 PM
>>
>>I know the efi setups are supposed to increase drivability , improve mileage
>>and startability but based on just horse power difference What can someone
>>expect if all othet things remain unchanged and I were to convert from a
>>Holley 650 with an Edebrock type aluminum intake manifold and a. switch to
>>4 weber IDF's (with the appropriate venturis or a weber style( throttle
>>body) efi ( Redline, TWM, Dynatek, Imagination injection ) is there a
>>substantial HP difference?
>>
>>Boyd 1973L # 5783
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>Mad Dawg Antenucci 
>Team Pantera Racing 
>  The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
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