[DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler

Mike Thomas mbefthomas at comcast.net
Fri Oct 24 19:29:16 EDT 2008 

Only if those are twist-tops on a bottle of Ripple . . . 

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Kimball
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:07 PM
To: wkooiman at earthlink.net; P. Rimov; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler


Yes, but can Roseanne Barr's uglier sister handle the twisties...



> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:24:46 -0500
> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com; rimov at charter.net; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the 
> traveler
> 
> You can always tell where people put their priorities.
> 
> My analogy wouldn't have been to food.  I probably would have compared the difference between an SRT-8 and a Pantera to the difference between sleeping with Roseanne Barr's uglier sister and sleeping with Cindy Crawford after a weekend in The Atrium with a Dawg.
> 
> But that's just me.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> >Sent: Oct 23, 2008 1:16 AM
> >To: "P. Rimov" <rimov at charter.net>, detomaso at realbig.com
> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the 
> >traveler
> >
> >
> >Very well-said!
> >
> >I have always felt the same way, but have never been able to articulate it quite so well.
> >
> >I recently acquired a Magnum SRT-8 which is faster 0-60 than a stock Pantera, probably has a top speed equal, or at least very close to, a stock Pantera and corners unbelievably well.  It has heated seats, is quiet, comfortable, has a bunch of cup holders, dual climate control, lots of luggage space, starts every time, etc. etc. etc.
> >
> >I think it was a wise purchase and I'm glad it's working so well, but you know what?  The difference between driving the SRT-8 and the Pantera is the difference between eating a sandwich on a full stomach after being shot full of novacaine at the dentis's office, and eating perfectly prepared prime rib after going two days without food.  
> >
> >There is absolutely no substitue for the visceral, all-encompasing experience of a loud, untamed, brutish American V8.  The fact it comes wrapped in a package more beautiful than any other is simply icing on the cake.
> >
> >Chris
> >#3846
> >
> >> From: rimov at charter.net
> >> To: deTomaso at realbig.com
> >> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:43:53 -0700
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the 
> >> traveler
> >> 
> >> Reflecting upon on this topic I see a very close paradigm with the 
> >> 427 boss also being talked about on this forum. As one who has 
> >> traveled down the road of  thinking newer must be better only to 
> >> realize otherwise with my 5.0 EFI conversion which is similar to 
> >> the Cleveland in many respects but is lighter than the previous 
> >> motor, capable of much better fuel economy and emissions, superior 
> >> starting and smoother predictable performance, the engine is simply 
> >> not the Cleveland. The car no longer feels like what it used to, 
> >> which in many ways does the car an injustice. I think, maybe, older 
> >> collectable cars should feel nostalgic and remind us of a simpler 
> >> time, even for the briefest of times when we get the chance to take 
> >> them out of the garage. I don't think most people would ever think 
> >> about replacing the 427 in a Boss Mustang for better mileage, 
> >> lighter weight, smoother running, or other demands we make of 
> >> present day cars. And given the chance to own a modern Mustang 
> >> verses a vintage 69 I would have to say I would preferred to drive my current car to work daily and enjoy the occasional drive in a classic with all it's inherent faults.
> >> 
> >> Cheers
> >> 
> >> The Traveler
> >> 
> >> Paul
> >> 
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Curt Hall" <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
> >> To: <boyd411 at gmail.com>; <detomaso at realbig.com>; "Bohdan Goyaniuk" 
> >> <andriykoisg at yahoo.ca>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:24 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > The 4.6 DOHC does have it's pluses! But there is a lot to be said 
> >> > for a BIG cammed, thumping 351 Cleveland in your Pantera! Hey, 
> >> > each to there own!
> >> >
> >> > --- On Wed, 10/22/08, Bohdan Goyaniuk <andriykoisg at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > From: Bohdan Goyaniuk <andriykoisg at yahoo.ca>
> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera
> >> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> >> > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 7:12 PM
> >> >
> >> > I am in the process of installing a 4.6 DOHC all Aluminum into my 
> >> > DeTomaso.
> >> >
> >> >  A stock 351C (not BOSS) makes, at best,  300 hp SAE NET at the 
> >> > crank (actually probably closer to 270hp SAE NET).  71 and 72 
> >> > best advertised 330 hp were SAE GROSS.  (Recall they changed from 
> >> > SAE GROSS to SAE NET in 72).
> >> > The
> >> > DeTomaso (Santiago and Wilkinson) homologated 4.6 DOHC with Motec 
> >> > computer makes
> >> > 367 hp SAE NET at the crank - Certified.
> >> >
> >> >  There is a difference in the torque.  The stock 351C (5.7 litre) 
> >> > makes gobs of low end torque.  That torque does drop off at 
> >> > higher RPM.  The 4.6 makes less low end torque but the torque 
> >> > curve is flatter across the rpm range and effectively is better 
> >> > at higher rpm than the stock 351C.
> >> >
> >> >  A stock 4.6 DOHC all Aluminum vs stock 351C (not Boss) gives 
> >> > you: 1) More hp. and better overall torque. 2)  Flat interior 
> >> > firewall. 3)  Better Gas mileage. 4)  Smoother running engine. 5) 
> >> > roughly a 200 lbs off the curb weight (not just engine but no 
> >> > other 351C goodies like the 2 coolant tanks).  6) Better 
> >> > driveability (fuel injection and electronic ignition).
> >> >
> >> >  The 351C can very easily be modified to give 500hp or beyond.  
> >> > All of which can be done to the 4.6 DOHC as well.
> >> >
> >> >  The bottom line is cost ... and that IS the difference.  The 4.6 
> >> > option is more expensive.  But consider comparing the 4.6 to an 
> >> > all aluminum fuel injected 351C and  - the price difference 
> >> > closes.
> >> >
> >> >  For me, no matter what you do with the 351C you cannot get 2), 
> >> > 3) and 4)
> >> >
> >> >  On the other hand, the Pantera is most closely associated with the 351C. 
> >> > Is
> >> > the Pantera's character compromised any differently with a 
> >> > modified 351C, Clevor, Windsor, 427, 5.4 DOHC or 4.6 DOHC?
> >> >
> >> >  I had researched this very thoroughly before I put my money 
> >> > down.  I have owned a modified 351C '74, as a daily diver, for 18 
> >> > years.  I have driven the 4.6 DOHC car.  For my taste, the 
> >> > Italian Teksid all aluminum 4.6 DOHC engine is the engine the car 
> >> > should have been built with in the first place.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >  B.G.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > In a message dated 10/22/08 17 36 39, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I was looking through Fords racing  sales web page and I saw 
> >> >> their 4.6 modular engine with aluminum block , 4 valve , dual 
> >> >> overhead cams and availible with various setups that generate up 
> >> >> to 700 hp starting at
> >> > $6700.
> >> >> Has anyone heard of installing one of these in a Pantera?  The 
> >> >> idea of
> >> > dohc
> >> >> and 4 valve in an aluminum block seems like a good way to 
> >> >> incorporate more modern engine technology. Any thoughts 
> >> >> comments?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Several people (including several people on this forum) have 
> >> > installed the little 280 cubic inch modular V-8 into Panteras. 
> >> > I'm not particularly fond of the conversion myself. The engine is 
> >> > physically huge, apparently somewhat lighter, much smoother, gets 
> >> > better fuel economy, and makes about the same power as a stock 
> >> > 351C.
> >> >
> >> > For the same money, you could either build a great 351C, or a 
> >> > 351W. For a bit more money you could get almost double the power 
> >> > with a stroker 427 based on the 351W.
> >> >
> >> > I can see no good reason to remove a 351-inch engine and replace 
> >> > it with a 280-inch engine, unless you are really into the 
> >> > technology, and don't mind the expense and sacrifices that go 
> >> > with it.
> >> >
> >> > I do know that Richard Barkley loves his 4.6, and I think Kjetil 
> >> > Finne loves his turbocharged 4.6. Brian Bernard spent over $15K 
> >> > having a two-cam Lincoln
> >> > 4.6 put into his GT5-S, and he deeply regrets it. He reports his 
> >> > car is much smoother but also quite a bit slower than with its 
> >> > stock, low-compression,
> >> >
> >> > smog-legal 351C.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > **************
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