[DeTomaso] Wrecked Ford GTs ( Re: Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera)

Ken Green kenn_green at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 24 17:01:44 EDT 2008 

I read a review that said Ford built in understeer (like the Pantera?) to keep drivers out of trouble.  The corporate philosophy?  I think you are right that people driving cars like this need at least a short course to find out what happens at the limits of adhesion.
 
Ken

--- On Fri, 10/24/08, asajay at asajay.com <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:

From: asajay at asajay.com <asajay at asajay.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wrecked Ford GTs ( Re: Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera)
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 12:21 PM

Most of the wrecked Ford GTs I've seen, have munched front ends.  Like  
they weren't pointing the car in the right direction at the moment of  
impact.  Failure to negotiate a curve in most cases.

Asa Jay

Quoting Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>:

>
> I've heard on several occasions that a very large percentage of   
> Porsche 930's had experienced severe damage to the rear of the cars   
> from getting backwards in a curve.  I don't recall details, but it   
> seemed to be a common scenario.  I wonder if there is a similar   
> scenario of a lot of the Ford GT crashes?
>  
> I found this description of the 930 scenario:
>  
> The Porsche 930 proved very fast but also very demanding. The 911   
> was prone to oversteer because of its rear engine layout and short   
> wheelbase; combining those traits with the power of the turbocharged  
>  motor, which exhibited significant turbo-lag, made the problem more  
>  prevalent. Even though the rear engine layout provided superior   
> traction, sudden bursts of power to the rear wheels in mid-corner   
> could break the tires loose, causing the car to literally spin out   
> of control. This effect was amplified if an unexperienced driver   
> would instinctively lift the throttle in reaction. The vehicle   
> needed to be kept at high revs during spirited driving to minimise   
> the turbo-lag. Skilled drivers quickly learned how to drive the 930   
> properly, and with that knowledge came the ability to drive the car   
> above and beyond the levels of most other sports cars.   
>  Nevertheless, some fatal accidents resulted in product liability   
> law suits brought against Porsche in the U.S.
>  
> Ken
>
> --- On Fri, 10/24/08, asajay at asajay.com <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
>
> From: asajay at asajay.com <asajay at asajay.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wrecked Ford GTs ( Re: Ford 4.6 modular   
> power in a Pantera)
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 11:56 AM
>
> If only I knew where it was going.  I'd prefer to have the whole car
> though. Oh well.  Just a shame somebody didn't know how to drive it.
> At least I -admit- I don't know how, I'm past the denial stage, I
only
>
> have 11 more steps to go.
>
> Asa Jay
>
>
> Quoting Peter Kovacs <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net>:
>
>> Silver lining may be ....donor drivetrain for a Pantera??
>>  
>> Peter Kovacs
>> Property Equity & Mortgage Mgmt
>> 209 345-6708
>> 209 523-4919 fx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:14:01 AM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Wrecked Ford GTs ( Re: Ford 4.6 modular power in
>>  a Pantera)
>>
>> Saw a wrecked Ford GT on the back of a flatbed just last week.  I
could
>> have cried.
>>
>> Asa Jay
>>
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>
>> & Shelley Marie
>> Spokane, WA
>>
>> 1971 Mach I Mustang  [ASA JAY]
>> 1973 Pantera L 5533  [ASASCAT]
>>    
>> ******************************   
>> http://www.asajay.com
>> http://www.351c.info
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>> michael at michaelshortt.com wrote:
>>> Great advice on the engine selection process.
>>>
>>> I'd believe that 30% of the Ford GT have been wrecked, just
> because some
>>> Gomer has 150-200K to spend on the car doesn't make him
qualified
> to own it.
>>> There should have been a Skip Barbour or other school program
required
> to
>>> buy those cars. One of the best things about Brumos Porsche Audi
in
>>> Jacksonville, FL is that they have a free track day/driving school
for
>>> people who buy cars from them, a nice perk to be sure, esp if the
> dealer has
>>> a pedigree like they have and when Hurley Haywood is an
instructor.
>>>
>>> Ford missed the boat by not doing that, cash ain't no
substitute
> for skill.
>>>
>>> Michael in Savannah
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:04 AM, David Gordon
> <dgordon100 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   I'd suggest looking carefully at your intended use and
> budget not only
>>>> short term but long term before deciding on a motor.  As one
of
> the
>>>> "couple" that Jack referred to, though none are on
the
> road yet as far
>>>> as I know, I'd probably say for day in and day out street
> driving and
>>>> occasional banzai runs, the Roush 427 FI motor is a pretty
good
> choice.
>>>> It is Windsor based.  The 5.4 modular has a very long stroke
and
> has
>>>> more torque than a 4.6 but doesn't rev as high.  I'm
a
> tech junkie so I
>>>> chose a more technological advanced route plus a supercharged
> engine is
>>>> easier to get serious power from without having to tear it
> apart.  With
>>>> a pulley change the GT motor pumps out ~625 RWHP and if you go
> with a
>>>> larger supercharger ~750 to 850 RWHP all on pump gas and
without
> having
>>>> to worry about internal engine part failures.  Turbo chargers
are
> more
>>>> efficient but make power higher up.  A couple of people on
with
> Ford GT
>>>> cars are running a twin turbo with the supercharger to have
the
> low end
>>>> grunt of a supercharger with the all out power of
turbochargers. 
> An
>>>> estimated 30% of all Ford GT cars have been wrecked according
to
> one of
>>>> the moderators on the GT forum.  Increased power may mean
> increased risk
>>>> of damage to your car.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Last I heard the drive in drive out price of a regular 4.6 or
5.4
>>>> modular conversion was about $17K at one of the vendors. 
Some
> money can
>>>> probably be saved by using a Ford PCM rather than a Motec. 
> Several
>>>> people have done the conversion themselves and saved some
money.
>>>> Richard Barkley has a nice article on what he went through and
> some
>>>> resources he used to keep the cost down
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes on your engine choice,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
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