[DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler

wkooiman at earthlink.net wkooiman at earthlink.net
Fri Oct 24 02:16:19 EDT 2008


What is a twistie?

By the way (back to pantera content)

I've seriously considered a 4.6 conversion on more than one occasion.  It's tough to look at the 4.6 crates and not want one, especially when you consider all the advantages.  My brother has a 2003 Cobra.  He did some mild tweaks and got 430HP to the rear wheels.  How can you not love that?

Every time I consider the 4.6, it always comes down to what Paul stated so well.  I want the 351C for the beauty of its simplicity.  I don't want EFI either.  I've considered a turbo or supercharger, but I don't want all that complexity.  Just give me a 351C, Webers, a solid cam, and some open road.

BTW2, I've been commuting between Houston and Dallas for about 3 years now.  I take the Honda Insight most of the time.  I really get sick of driving the sewing machine.  It gets great mileage, but it's boring.  When I take the Pantera, I look forward to the 3.5 hr commute.  It does wonders for my attitude.  My car has been down for most of 2008, though, so my attitude has been pretty grim.

Will.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
>Sent: Oct 24, 2008 1:07 AM
>To: wkooiman at earthlink.net, "P. Rimov" <rimov at charter.net>, detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler
>
>
>Yes, but can Roseanne Barr's uglier sister handle the twisties...
>
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:24:46 -0500
>> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
>> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com; rimov at charter.net; detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler
>> 
>> You can always tell where people put their priorities.
>> 
>> My analogy wouldn't have been to food.  I probably would have compared the difference between an SRT-8 and a Pantera to the difference between sleeping with Roseanne Barr's uglier sister and sleeping with Cindy Crawford after a weekend in The Atrium with a Dawg.
>> 
>> But that's just me.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
>> >Sent: Oct 23, 2008 1:16 AM
>> >To: "P. Rimov" <rimov at charter.net>, detomaso at realbig.com
>> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler
>> >
>> >
>> >Very well-said!
>> >
>> >I have always felt the same way, but have never been able to articulate it quite so well.
>> >
>> >I recently acquired a Magnum SRT-8 which is faster 0-60 than a stock Pantera, probably has a top speed equal, or at least very close to, a stock Pantera and corners unbelievably well.  It has heated seats, is quiet, comfortable, has a bunch of cup holders, dual climate control, lots of luggage space, starts every time, etc. etc. etc.
>> >
>> >I think it was a wise purchase and I'm glad it's working so well, but you know what?  The difference between driving the SRT-8 and the Pantera is the difference between eating a sandwich on a full stomach after being shot full of novacaine at the dentis's office, and eating perfectly prepared prime rib after going two days without food.  
>> >
>> >There is absolutely no substitue for the visceral, all-encompasing experience of a loud, untamed, brutish American V8.  The fact it comes wrapped in a package more beautiful than any other is simply icing on the cake.
>> >
>> >Chris
>> >#3846
>> >
>> >> From: rimov at charter.net
>> >> To: deTomaso at realbig.com
>> >> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:43:53 -0700
>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler
>> >> 
>> >> Reflecting upon on this topic I see a very close paradigm with the 427 boss 
>> >> also being talked about on this forum. As one who has traveled down the road 
>> >> of  thinking newer must be better only to realize otherwise with my 5.0 EFI 
>> >> conversion which is similar to the Cleveland in many respects but is lighter 
>> >> than the previous motor, capable of much better fuel economy and emissions, 
>> >> superior starting and smoother predictable performance, the engine is simply 
>> >> not the Cleveland. The car no longer feels like what it used to, which in 
>> >> many ways does the car an injustice. I think, maybe, older collectable cars 
>> >> should feel nostalgic and remind us of a simpler time, even for the briefest 
>> >> of times when we get the chance to take them out of the garage. I don't 
>> >> think most people would ever think about replacing the 427 in a Boss Mustang 
>> >> for better mileage, lighter weight, smoother running, or other demands we 
>> >> make of present day cars. And given the chance to own a modern Mustang 
>> >> verses a vintage 69 I would have to say I would preferred to drive my 
>> >> current car to work daily and enjoy the occasional drive in a classic with 
>> >> all it's inherent faults.
>> >> 
>> >> Cheers
>> >> 
>> >> The Traveler
>> >> 
>> >> Paul
>> >> 
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Curt Hall" <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
>> >> To: <boyd411 at gmail.com>; <detomaso at realbig.com>; "Bohdan Goyaniuk" 
>> >> <andriykoisg at yahoo.ca>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:24 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> > The 4.6 DOHC does have it's pluses! But there is a lot to be said for a 
>> >> > BIG cammed, thumping 351 Cleveland in your Pantera! Hey, each to there 
>> >> > own!
>> >> >
>> >> > --- On Wed, 10/22/08, Bohdan Goyaniuk <andriykoisg at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > From: Bohdan Goyaniuk <andriykoisg at yahoo.ca>
>> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera
>> >> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com, detomaso at realbig.com
>> >> > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 7:12 PM
>> >> >
>> >> > I am in the process of installing a 4.6 DOHC all Aluminum into my 
>> >> > DeTomaso.
>> >> >
>> >> >  A stock 351C (not BOSS) makes, at best,  300 hp SAE NET at the crank
>> >> > (actually probably closer to 270hp SAE NET).  71 and 72 best advertised 
>> >> > 330 hp
>> >> > were SAE GROSS.  (Recall they changed from SAE GROSS to SAE NET in 72). 
>> >> > The
>> >> > DeTomaso (Santiago and Wilkinson) homologated 4.6 DOHC with Motec computer 
>> >> > makes
>> >> > 367 hp SAE NET at the crank - Certified.
>> >> >
>> >> >  There is a difference in the torque.  The stock 351C (5.7 litre) makes 
>> >> > gobs
>> >> > of low end torque.  That torque does drop off at higher RPM.  The 4.6 
>> >> > makes less
>> >> > low end torque but the torque curve is flatter across the rpm range and
>> >> > effectively is better at higher rpm than the stock 351C.
>> >> >
>> >> >  A stock 4.6 DOHC all Aluminum vs stock 351C (not Boss) gives you: 1) 
>> >> > More
>> >> > hp. and better overall torque. 2)  Flat interior firewall. 3)  Better Gas
>> >> > mileage. 4)  Smoother running engine. 5) roughly a 200 lbs off the curb 
>> >> > weight
>> >> > (not just engine but no other 351C goodies like the 2 coolant tanks).  6) 
>> >> > Better
>> >> > driveability (fuel injection and electronic ignition).
>> >> >
>> >> >  The 351C can very easily be modified to give 500hp or beyond.  All of 
>> >> > which
>> >> > can be done to the 4.6 DOHC as well.
>> >> >
>> >> >  The bottom line is cost ... and that IS the difference.  The 4.6 option 
>> >> > is
>> >> > more expensive.  But consider comparing the 4.6 to an all aluminum fuel 
>> >> > injected
>> >> > 351C and  - the price difference closes.
>> >> >
>> >> >  For me, no matter what you do with the 351C you cannot get 2), 3) and 4)
>> >> >
>> >> >  On the other hand, the Pantera is most closely associated with the 351C. 
>> >> > Is
>> >> > the Pantera's character compromised any differently with a modified 351C,
>> >> > Clevor, Windsor, 427, 5.4 DOHC or 4.6 DOHC?
>> >> >
>> >> >  I had researched this very thoroughly before I put my money down.  I have
>> >> > owned a modified 351C '74, as a daily diver, for 18 years.  I have driven
>> >> > the 4.6 DOHC car.  For my taste, the Italian Teksid all aluminum 4.6 DOHC 
>> >> > engine
>> >> > is the engine the car should have been built with in the first place.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >  B.G.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > In a message dated 10/22/08 17 36 39, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> I was looking through Fords racing  sales web page and I saw their 4.6
>> >> >> modular engine with aluminum block , 4 valve , dual overhead cams and
>> >> >> availible with various setups that generate up to 700 hp starting at
>> >> > $6700.
>> >> >> Has anyone heard of installing one of these in a Pantera?  The idea of
>> >> > dohc
>> >> >> and 4 valve in an aluminum block seems like a good way to incorporate 
>> >> >> more
>> >> >> modern engine technology. Any thoughts comments?
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Several people (including several people on this forum) have installed the
>> >> > little 280 cubic inch modular V-8 into Panteras. I'm not particularly fond
>> >> > of
>> >> > the conversion myself. The engine is physically huge, apparently somewhat
>> >> > lighter, much smoother, gets better fuel economy, and makes about the same
>> >> > power
>> >> > as a stock 351C.
>> >> >
>> >> > For the same money, you could either build a great 351C, or a 351W. For a
>> >> > bit more money you could get almost double the power with a stroker 427 
>> >> > based
>> >> > on the 351W.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can see no good reason to remove a 351-inch engine and replace it with a
>> >> > 280-inch engine, unless you are really into the technology, and don't mind
>> >> > the
>> >> > expense and sacrifices that go with it.
>> >> >
>> >> > I do know that Richard Barkley loves his 4.6, and I think Kjetil Finne 
>> >> > loves
>> >> > his turbocharged 4.6. Brian Bernard spent over $15K having a two-cam 
>> >> > Lincoln
>> >> > 4.6 put into his GT5-S, and he deeply regrets it. He reports his car is
>> >> > much smoother but also quite a bit slower than with its stock, 
>> >> > low-compression,
>> >> >
>> >> > smog-legal 351C.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > **************
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