[DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler
P. Rimov
rimov at charter.net
Fri Oct 24 01:37:55 EDT 2008
Will, just which car are you comparing to Roseanne Barr's sister and which
car are you comparing to Cindy Crawford?
Cheers
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
To: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>; "P. Rimov"
<rimov at charter.net>; <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler
You can always tell where people put their priorities.
My analogy wouldn't have been to food. I probably would have compared the
difference between an SRT-8 and a Pantera to the difference between sleeping
with Roseanne Barr's uglier sister and sleeping with Cindy Crawford after a
weekend in The Atrium with a Dawg.
But that's just me.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
>Sent: Oct 23, 2008 1:16 AM
>To: "P. Rimov" <rimov at charter.net>, detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler
>
>
>Very well-said!
>
>I have always felt the same way, but have never been able to articulate it
>quite so well.
>
>I recently acquired a Magnum SRT-8 which is faster 0-60 than a stock
>Pantera, probably has a top speed equal, or at least very close to, a stock
>Pantera and corners unbelievably well. It has heated seats, is quiet,
>comfortable, has a bunch of cup holders, dual climate control, lots of
>luggage space, starts every time, etc. etc. etc.
>
>I think it was a wise purchase and I'm glad it's working so well, but you
>know what? The difference between driving the SRT-8 and the Pantera is the
>difference between eating a sandwich on a full stomach after being shot
>full of novacaine at the dentis's office, and eating perfectly prepared
>prime rib after going two days without food.
>
>There is absolutely no substitue for the visceral, all-encompasing
>experience of a loud, untamed, brutish American V8. The fact it comes
>wrapped in a package more beautiful than any other is simply icing on the
>cake.
>
>Chris
>#3846
>
>> From: rimov at charter.net
>> To: deTomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:43:53 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera, the traveler
>>
>> Reflecting upon on this topic I see a very close paradigm with the 427
>> boss
>> also being talked about on this forum. As one who has traveled down the
>> road
>> of thinking newer must be better only to realize otherwise with my 5.0
>> EFI
>> conversion which is similar to the Cleveland in many respects but is
>> lighter
>> than the previous motor, capable of much better fuel economy and
>> emissions,
>> superior starting and smoother predictable performance, the engine is
>> simply
>> not the Cleveland. The car no longer feels like what it used to, which in
>> many ways does the car an injustice. I think, maybe, older collectable
>> cars
>> should feel nostalgic and remind us of a simpler time, even for the
>> briefest
>> of times when we get the chance to take them out of the garage. I don't
>> think most people would ever think about replacing the 427 in a Boss
>> Mustang
>> for better mileage, lighter weight, smoother running, or other demands we
>> make of present day cars. And given the chance to own a modern Mustang
>> verses a vintage 69 I would have to say I would preferred to drive my
>> current car to work daily and enjoy the occasional drive in a classic
>> with
>> all it's inherent faults.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> The Traveler
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Curt Hall" <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: <boyd411 at gmail.com>; <detomaso at realbig.com>; "Bohdan Goyaniuk"
>> <andriykoisg at yahoo.ca>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera
>>
>>
>> > The 4.6 DOHC does have it's pluses! But there is a lot to be said for a
>> > BIG cammed, thumping 351 Cleveland in your Pantera! Hey, each to there
>> > own!
>> >
>> > --- On Wed, 10/22/08, Bohdan Goyaniuk <andriykoisg at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Bohdan Goyaniuk <andriykoisg at yahoo.ca>
>> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ford 4.6 modular power in a Pantera
>> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com, detomaso at realbig.com
>> > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 7:12 PM
>> >
>> > I am in the process of installing a 4.6 DOHC all Aluminum into my
>> > DeTomaso.
>> >
>> > A stock 351C (not BOSS) makes, at best, 300 hp SAE NET at the crank
>> > (actually probably closer to 270hp SAE NET). 71 and 72 best advertised
>> > 330 hp
>> > were SAE GROSS. (Recall they changed from SAE GROSS to SAE NET in 72).
>> > The
>> > DeTomaso (Santiago and Wilkinson) homologated 4.6 DOHC with Motec
>> > computer
>> > makes
>> > 367 hp SAE NET at the crank - Certified.
>> >
>> > There is a difference in the torque. The stock 351C (5.7 litre) makes
>> > gobs
>> > of low end torque. That torque does drop off at higher RPM. The 4.6
>> > makes less
>> > low end torque but the torque curve is flatter across the rpm range and
>> > effectively is better at higher rpm than the stock 351C.
>> >
>> > A stock 4.6 DOHC all Aluminum vs stock 351C (not Boss) gives you: 1)
>> > More
>> > hp. and better overall torque. 2) Flat interior firewall. 3) Better
>> > Gas
>> > mileage. 4) Smoother running engine. 5) roughly a 200 lbs off the curb
>> > weight
>> > (not just engine but no other 351C goodies like the 2 coolant tanks).
>> > 6)
>> > Better
>> > driveability (fuel injection and electronic ignition).
>> >
>> > The 351C can very easily be modified to give 500hp or beyond. All of
>> > which
>> > can be done to the 4.6 DOHC as well.
>> >
>> > The bottom line is cost ... and that IS the difference. The 4.6
>> > option
>> > is
>> > more expensive. But consider comparing the 4.6 to an all aluminum fuel
>> > injected
>> > 351C and - the price difference closes.
>> >
>> > For me, no matter what you do with the 351C you cannot get 2), 3) and
>> > 4)
>> >
>> > On the other hand, the Pantera is most closely associated with the
>> > 351C.
>> > Is
>> > the Pantera's character compromised any differently with a modified
>> > 351C,
>> > Clevor, Windsor, 427, 5.4 DOHC or 4.6 DOHC?
>> >
>> > I had researched this very thoroughly before I put my money down. I
>> > have
>> > owned a modified 351C '74, as a daily diver, for 18 years. I have
>> > driven
>> > the 4.6 DOHC car. For my taste, the Italian Teksid all aluminum 4.6
>> > DOHC
>> > engine
>> > is the engine the car should have been built with in the first place.
>> >
>> >
>> > B.G.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>> >
>> > In a message dated 10/22/08 17 36 39, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >> I was looking through Fords racing sales web page and I saw their
>> >> 4.6
>> >> modular engine with aluminum block , 4 valve , dual overhead cams and
>> >> availible with various setups that generate up to 700 hp starting at
>> > $6700.
>> >> Has anyone heard of installing one of these in a Pantera? The idea
>> >> of
>> > dohc
>> >> and 4 valve in an aluminum block seems like a good way to incorporate
>> >> more
>> >> modern engine technology. Any thoughts comments?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Several people (including several people on this forum) have installed
>> > the
>> > little 280 cubic inch modular V-8 into Panteras. I'm not particularly
>> > fond
>> > of
>> > the conversion myself. The engine is physically huge, apparently
>> > somewhat
>> > lighter, much smoother, gets better fuel economy, and makes about the
>> > same
>> > power
>> > as a stock 351C.
>> >
>> > For the same money, you could either build a great 351C, or a 351W. For
>> > a
>> > bit more money you could get almost double the power with a stroker 427
>> > based
>> > on the 351W.
>> >
>> > I can see no good reason to remove a 351-inch engine and replace it
>> > with a
>> > 280-inch engine, unless you are really into the technology, and don't
>> > mind
>> > the
>> > expense and sacrifices that go with it.
>> >
>> > I do know that Richard Barkley loves his 4.6, and I think Kjetil Finne
>> > loves
>> > his turbocharged 4.6. Brian Bernard spent over $15K having a two-cam
>> > Lincoln
>> > 4.6 put into his GT5-S, and he deeply regrets it. He reports his car is
>> > much smoother but also quite a bit slower than with its stock,
>> > low-compression,
>> >
>> > smog-legal 351C.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>> > **************
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