[DeTomaso] the great debate

Wed Oct 22 14:21:46 EDT 2008

We are clearly all different and buy different cars for different reasons.  A few years ago when I decided to play with cars again, on the verge of being 50, I looked at my options:

build a Cobra replica

restore/modify a mid 60s Vette

restore/modify a Pantera.

The Cobra was out because I wanted something I could drive on a weekend trip, a Cobra is just to much of a sunny afternoon drive car.

I've had 4 Vettes from a 57 to a 435 Hp 67.  I would have enjoyed a 65 or 66 small block, but I don't think the body/frame is strong enough to handle the power of a big block.  I can remember driving down the freeway and watching the gap between the door and the jam open and close.  And I didn't feel like paying a lot for the collector value.

I had a 72 Pantera in 75-77 and it stood out as something different and special.  I understand the argument that a Vette is technically mid engine, but it just isn't the same as having the engine right behind you.  I also prefer a more spartan interior, and respectfully suggest that Vette interiors (along with all American cars) seem a little plastic.  But I am still sure I would enjoy a Vette for a weekend or daily driver.

Ken

--- On Wed, 10/22/08, michael at michaelshortt.com <michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:

From: michael at michaelshortt.com <michael at michaelshortt.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] the great debate
To: larry at ohiotimecorp.com
Cc: "Gray Gregory" <ggregory at gregorycook.com>, "DeTomaso Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 10:39 AM

Mr. Liddy has owned several Corvettes, I meant no disrepect for him, I have
met him twice in the Washington studios and for a time was a sponsor of his
national radio show.  He's a very cool guy and I'm lucky to have
several of
his books autographed to me.

Again the point in the very beginning and exactly what you say is that YOU
HAVE TO BE OLD ENOUGH TO AFFORD IT, which is what I said, showing a snot
nosed 20 year old guy at the wheel ( with or without a hootie girl by his
side ) does nothing to reinforce existing owner buyer's satisfaction level.

It's like one of those picture puzzles, Rolex, C-6 Corvette, Donzi Boat,
40-50 year old self man man and 20 year old kid, which one of these things
doesn't belong?

Michael in Savannah

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Larry - Ohio Time Corp <
larry at ohiotimecorp.com> wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> << Gordon Liddy bragging about his ZR1>>
>
> Mr. G. Gordon Liddy has/had a Lingenfeider Corvette. He was very happy
with
> the cars performance and talked about it often. Yes he is an older
> gentleman. I think it takes an older person with some money to spend to
buy
> a car in that price range. I know I will never have the money to buy one.
> But lower the price to what the young people are spending on cars and they
> would buy them. Me too! I did have the honor of hearing G. Gordon speak in
> the late 80's and it is something I will always remember. His book
"Will"
> is
> a must read. He is a mans man.
>
> I think the current Corvette is so good that is can last for another 4-8
> years with the normal, color, wheels, trim and interior changes. I would
> rather see that then to see it or GM drop out all together. Hard times
call
> for hard measures.
>
> Larry (average Pantera owner is in his 50's) - Cleveland
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On
> Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
>  Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:55 PM
> To: Gray Gregory
> Cc: DeTomaso Forum
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] the great debate
>
> No bikini models requested, they wanted a young couple in their early
20's
> to pose as Corvette owners for the Corvette Quarterly magazine, a rag
> directed at current owners only, not mass marketing.  I agree that sex
> sells
> but it sells mostly to people who aspire to the product not those that
> already have the product, in my opinion which is somewhat vindicated by
> lots
> of happy clients. Existing clients want a reaffirmation of a solid product
> purchase and in the case of HD and Corvette to reinforce the lifestyle
> aspect of the car.  As I said, showing some snot nosed kid as a fellow
> owner
> doesn't do that for me.  Not that I want to see some pot bellied 50
year
> old
> millionaire either, but I do want to see somebody who looks like they
> earned
> the car, LIKE I DID, not somebody who bought it with a trust fund.
>
> My original point was exactly what you said, simply that if development
> stopped on the car, others would surpass it and they would lose sales that
> should be theirs.
>
> I know that little money is made on the car, it's showrrom candy to
lure
> buyers in to buy the Malibu, etc.  Just like the NASCAR boys and their
> Bowtie cars, which are about as much Chevy, Ford or Dodge as my 450SL.
>
> Esp. with the Corvette, it's selling the lifestyle, the image, etc. 
High
> Karate after shave
> The man who reads Playboy, the rubbies on Harley's, the chick with the
LV
> handbag, etc.
>
> But if the car fails to perform to the image presented - the shine goes
> away
> over time and owners gravitate to other offerings.
> Sure, others who commented work closer to the industry than I do, I simply
> know people. and you can't convince me that if the C-4 was as good as
the
> C-5 and C-6 that
> many of the other cars of the same period would have never sold in the
> numbers that they did
> if the Corvette had not lost some of the luster it had in C-1 through C-3
> periods.
> The same dollars for 944, 944 turbos, 928, XJS, 280ZX, 300ZX, etc. would
> have bought Vettes if they were all that back then. They lapsed into a
> reputation as an old man's car who wore gold chains and silver car
jackets
> covered in patches.  When your number one spokesperson nationally turns
out
> to be G. Gordon Liddy bragging about his ZR1 on national Radio, then you
> need to re-examine your product, The G-man was like 70 years old at the
> time.  ( although the ZR1 was a great car, but not representative of all
> Corvettes ) The C-4 lasted waaaaaaaay too long and while yearly sales may
> have remained strong by their own standards, other brands also sold lots
> and
> lots of cars to a growing market segment who didn't want a Corvette. 
Now
> that they built an awesome car again, the point remains that if they rest
> on
> their work, the same cycle will repeat itself thus my comment about
> learning
> from history.
>
> but as I also said, we are in a different age and perhaps the time has
come
> for Corvettes, Vipers, etc. to die and leave it to the specialty folks in
> Italy and elsewhere.
> The money ain't there and these Detroit marketing and bean counters
aren't
> even car guys, they want to build shitboxes, minivans and crossovers and
> then wonder why Toyota and Honda kick their asses in sales and consumer
> satisfaction.  ( notice that despite the 1 billion dollar cost per year,
> both Toyota and Honda have F1 efforts with REAL factory involvement).
>
> Michael in Savannah
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Gray Gregory
> <ggregory at gregorycook.com>wrote:
>
> > Michael,
> >
> > I don't follow the logic of your marketing comments. I'm a
middle aged
> > guy that can afford a Corvette and I would definitely rather see a
> > picture of the car filled with Bikini models than I would of a
picture
> > of the car with a gray haired guy like me behind the wheel! Number 1
> > rule of marketing, sex sells!
> >
> > Your other point on weather delaying the launch of a C-7 will hurt
> > future sales. No doubt that it will. GM is facing serious financial
> > problems right now, so the question becomes where is the best place
to
> > put development dollars? A limited production sports car or a mass
> > market compact or SUV? I don't think they can afford to do both
right
> > now.
> >
> > Gray
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> > On Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
> > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:12 AM
> > To: Dickruzzindesign at aol.com
> > Cc: DavidAdin at mercydurango.org; detomaso at realbig.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] the great debate
> >
> >  Dick,
> >
> > Please be my guest in Savannah, Daytona, Charlotte, Myrtle Beach,
Pigeon
> > Forge ( where they had nearly 6,000 Corvettes last week ) and help me
> > track
> > 25 down Corvette owners under 30!  Pack a lunch!
> >
> > I never said that the C-6 wasn't a great car, it is, If I had
room, I'd
> > have
> > one, but then again to prove my point, my first car was a 1960
Corvette,
> > my
> > first ride in a "fast steet car" was my Uncle's 427
Convertible Corvette
> > when I was 6 years old and I was a corner worker at Raod Atlanta and
> > other
> > tracks during the late 70's /80's when a Corvette was the
King of GT-1
> > and
> > I'm 49 years old. ( no gold chains, no silver jacket).
> >
> > 20 somethings today aspire to Sub WRX Sti's, Hondas, Boxsters,
Caymans,
> > and
> > such.
> > to "evolve" a marketing plan is one thing, to dream that
kids at that
> > age
> > will plop down 60-80K car for a car en masse is ridiculous.
> >
> > Michael in Savannah
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 11:48 AM, <Dickruzzindesign at aol.com>
wrote:
> >
> > > Michael,
> > > You sure have it all figured out. Thank you for that.
> > > I guess the Corvette is over. I thought for a while that the
racing
> > success
> > > and the European sales would help, no doubt the gold jacket set
will
> > > undermine the future.
> > >
> > > Brands do evolve though and the key element of a good brand is
its
> > ability
> > > to reinvent itself. When a Corvette pulls up to a Porsche or BMW
that
> > costs
> > > much more and has the discretionary power to blow it off I think
it is
> > > securing its future. Also, Corvette has unprecedented sales from
> > former
> > > European car owners.
> > >
> > > It is hard to change some peoples minds as they become very
secure in
> > their
> > > opinions and have a hard time backing up.
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > > Dick Ruzzin________________________dickruzzinDESIGN at aol.com
> > > 920 Whittier Rd.
> > > Grosse Pointe Park, MI 48230
> > > Home: 313-824-0539 / Cell: 313-300-9554
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > **************
> > > New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your
destination. Dining,
> > > Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (
> > > http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael L. Shortt
> > Savannah, Georgia
> > www.michaelshortt.com
> > michael at michaelshortt.com
> > 912-232-9390
> >
> >
> > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> > privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> > notified
> > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender
that
> > you
> > have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
> >  _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> > http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>

-- 
Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390

This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso