[DeTomaso] cooler air to carb

michaelsavga at gmail.com michaelsavga at gmail.com
Sat Oct 11 14:43:17 EDT 2008 

yep yep
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld

-----Original Message-----
From:	"John Taphorn" <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>

Date:	Sat, 11 Oct 2008 07:47:07 
To: <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Pantera List Serve<detomaso at realbig.com>; Christopher Kimball<chrisvkimball at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] cooler air to carb


This conversation seems all over the place, I need clarification

Is it correct to say that if your only goal is access to non-engine heated 
air for the intake, a closed system that is plumbed through the side gills 
(that do not extend into the air stream) is adequate.  Although a boundary 
layer may exist, it is not a vacuum and the engine will draw air into the 
carb from that location to meet its needs at any RPM/speed.

However, if one is seeking forced air induction, then another pathway is 
preferred.

Is it correct to say that boundary layer or not, the engine will have no 
impediment sucking air from the open side gill if tat gill is connected by a 
large hose to the aircleaner; only it may not be forced by the flow of air 
along the car into the gill.

In contrast, I recognize that if an open gill exists and it is an open 
system, i.e. not connected directly to the aircleaner, that the engine will 
take its air from that traveling up from under the car, rather than the from 
the gill.

Is this the popular opinion?

Thanks

JT


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
To: "Pantera List Serve" <detomaso at realbig.com>; "Christopher Kimball" 
<chrisvkimball at msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] cooler air to carb


>
> The discusion seems to have focused on getting into the air stream to get 
> a flow of air. You also can get a flow from a pressure difference. If the 
> air pressure above the deck is low, and there are openings in higher 
> pressure areas, maybe NACA ducts on the sides of the car in front of the 
> rear wheel wells, air should br drawn into the ducts, through the engine 
> compartment, and out over the rear deck.
>
> Ken
>
> --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com> wrote:
>
> From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] cooler air to carb
> To: "Pantera List Serve" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 10:20 PM
>
> ...the post about the engine-cover fans was, you know, kind of a 
> joke...(ask
> Mike Drew about that).
>
> Sometime in the future I might write something such as, "As President
> Regan would say..." so be prepared!
>
> Chris
> #3846
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:18:54 -0600
>> From: adin at frontier.net
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] cooler air to carb
>>
>>
>> Little know fact, Bruce died testing some decades ago.  I doubt he has
>> been "recently quoted" on anything.
>>
>> Just the fact, ma'am . . . . sorry.
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>:
>>
>> >
>> > Little known fact:  All McLaren automobiles have two, small fans
>> > mounted on their engine covers ventilating the engine compartment.
>
>> > They purchased the technology and associated patent from a
>> > little-known financial planner who lives in Washington State.
>> >
>> > Bruce McLaren was recently quoted as saying that if it weren't
> for
>> > that brilliant design concept, none of his cars would have ever
>> > finished a race...
>> >
>> >
>> > Chris
>> > #3846
>> >
>> >> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:00:25 -0400
>> >> From: michael at michaelshortt.com
>> >> To: teampantera at yahoo.com
>> >> CC: RKMosier at aol.com; guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] cooler air to carb
>> >>
>> >> OK, how about we just agree that McLaren knows a thing or two
> about this and
>> >> that on the 1996 F1 Street Car which I think was the fastest
> production car
>> >> on the planet until last year, the fresh air is brought in on the
> roof like
>> >> the thing that some of you guys use over the roof.
>> >>
>> >> Just like the air intake on an Formula One car, high over the
> drivers head
>> >> in the cleanest air they can find.
>> >>
>> >> Here is a group ( 10 teams ) that spend BILLIONS of dollars on
> research
>> >> and employ the smartest car engineers in the world, all of them
> use
>> >> air coolers ( even using portable fans powered by Makita
> batteries when
>> >> pitted ) and they rarely let them idle at a stand sit except when
> waiting on
>> >> the sessions to open and if you want to hear David Hobbs whine,
> let them sit
>> >> there for more than 30 seconds and see what happens.
>> >>
>> >> I'm sure that if there was a better way, Flux Capacitor
> Nitrogen dipped,
>> >> streamlined forced air triangulation induced induction with big
> brown dark
>> >> raisin smuggler nipples - they'd be doing it!
>> >>
>> >> ;-)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Michael in Savannah
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Mad Dog Antenucci
>> >> <teampantera at yahoo.com>wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Ahhhhh but we are talking a well engineered Porsche engine
> not a Pantera
>> >> > FORD engine
>> >> >
>> >> > *"michael at michaelshortt.com"
> <michael at michaelshortt.com>* wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Same as used on many cars like my 944, a simple ducted route
> to unheated
>> >> > air
>> >> > that is sucked in by the induction system only.
>> >> > It works or they wouldn't do it at Porsche.
>> >> >
>> >> > Michael in Savannah
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 2:07 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Richard,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I took a stock aircleaner in rough shape and modified
> it. I made a new
>> >> > > snout to match the original aircleaner hole that went
> from a rectangular
>> >> > > cross section to a round cross section. I then bought
> flex hose as used
>> >> > for
>> >> > > kitchen fans (i.e. it doesn't burn easily) and
> routed it towards the
>> >> > ground.
>> >> > > At "ground level" I simply made a short tube
> to clamp the hose to and
>> >> > bolted
>> >> > > the tube to the chassis. No scoop, no flaring, just a
> straight cut tube
>> >> > end
>> >> > > that points to the ground. I also filled the vacuum
> operated port and
>> >> > > duplicated the snout/hose installation on the drivers
> side of
>> >> the car. My
>> >> > > air cleaner air temp is marginally above ambient at
> speed. All this is
>> >> > > barely visible standing behind the car looking into the
> engine
>> >> bay and to
>> >> > > the unknowing appears stock.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Tomas
>> >> > >
>> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > > From:
>> >> >  > To:
>> >> > > Cc:
>> >> > > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:32 PM
>> >> > > Subject: [DeTomaso] cooler air to carb
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > We have talked in the past about the gill area and
> air flow over them
>> >> > and
>> >> > > > scoops and such. Is the feeling that area is a
> negative pressure area?
>> >> > > What I
>> >> > > > am wondering is if you drew air through vents
> there, without scoops
>> >> > > would it
>> >> > > > be drawn into the air filter/carb at speed or
> would it be a negative
>> >> > > > situation and actually be bad and reduce air to
> the carb when
>> >>  at spped?
>> >> > > In stop and
>> >> > > > go traffic I assume it would be cooler air than
> that in the engine
>> >> > > > compartment but could be bad a speed?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I am just wondering if there is a easy (a relative
> term) to get air
>> >> > > cooler
>> >> > > > that the hot engine bay air into the carb without
> changing the lines
>> >> > and
>> >> > > design
>> >> > > > of the car like scoops on the roof or gill area.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > This would not reduce the circulation in the
> engine compartment of
>> >> > > course.
>> >> > > > For that you would have to vent like the fans on
> the grill over the
>> >> > > engine as
>> >> > > > someone showed us pictures months back had done.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Perhaps I am going over old ideas.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Richard
>> >> > > > 3714 72 Pre L
>> >> > > > **************New MapQuest Local shows what's
> happening at your
>> >> > > destination.
>> >> > > > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it
> out
>> >> > > >
> (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
>> >> > > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
>> >> > http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > DeTomaso mailing list
>> >> > > > DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> >> > > > http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Michael L. Shortt
>> >> > Savannah, Georgia
>> >> > www.michaelshortt.com
>> >> > michael at michaelshortt.com
>> >> > 912-232-9390
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications
> Privacy
>> >> > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be
> legally
>> >> > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified
>> >> > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying
> of this
>> >> > communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the
> sender that you
>> >> > have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank
> you
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >
>> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >> >
>> >> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >> >
>> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> >> > DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> >> > http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > *Mad Dawg Antenucci
>> >> > Team Pantera Racing*
>> >> > *The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road
> racing
>> >> > *www.teampanteraracing.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Michael L. Shortt
>> >> Savannah, Georgia
>> >> www.michaelshortt.com
>> >> michael at michaelshortt.com
>> >> 912-232-9390
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>> >> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>> >> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified
>> >> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of
> this
>> >> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender
> that you
>> >> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>
>> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at
> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >>
>> >> DeTomaso mailing list
>> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >
>> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> >
>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> > DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> > http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

More information about the DeTomaso mailing list