[DeTomaso] Panteras  VS.  Other collector cars

michaelsavga at gmail.com michaelsavga at gmail.com
Tue Nov 18 09:02:57 EST 2008


That should framed in every Pantera owners garage.     Michael in Savannah
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld

-----Original Message-----
From:	MikeLDrew at aol.com

Date:	Tue, 18 Nov 2008 01:16:37 
To: <Partsman912 at aol.com>; <detomaso at realbig.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso]
 Panteras  VS.  Other collector ca
 rs



In a message dated 11/17/08 17 04 41, partsman912 at aol.com writes:


> My question to experienced Pantera owners is this : Why is the Pantera 
> being left behind in the collector car world compared to others in its class ?? I 
> see several wonderful Panteras for sale at reasonable prices , that appear 
> to languish on the market with hardly any activity at all, to?be relisted 
> again and again. This despite other marques that seem to create a feeding frenzy 
> the minute they it the market .
> 



If you're talking about specific cars, this can often be caused by them being 
geographically remote (Nobody wants to buy a Pantera from Dodge City, Kansas, 
or some place like that).   Panteras near large population centers normally 
command a decent price, but if it's out in the sticks, that's hard on the 
sellers.   Doug Kelm, for instance, freaking *gave* his Pantera away, just because 
he was selling it in Minnesota and he was unwilling to make the effort to 
transport the car to a more favorable location.   He easily left $15K on the 
table, and the car went to a VERY lucky buyer overseas, who was no closer to 
Minnesota than he was to Los Angeles or San Jose or Houston or whatever.

There are a number of reasons the Pantera languishes behind its bretheren in 
the marketplace generally, however.   What other people have said is true--the 
car got a bad rap when it was first released (well, actually, it was a 
well-deserved bad rap) because it was rushed to market, and it never really overcame 
the stigmas of overheating, poor build quality etc.   This despite the fact 
that by 1973, they really were excellent, turn-key cars right off the 
dealership floor.

Some people have asserted that the American V-8 contributes to holding the 
values down.   That is only true indirectly, at least in this country.   It's 
true overseas, because furreners are afraid of American V-8s (it's apparently 
easier to get Ferrari bits than Ford bits in France, for example).   But over 
here, simply having an American engine doesn't automatically hurt a car's value. 
  For example, consider the Bizzarrini or the Iso Grifo.   Both are 
American-powered, yet both command much respect among the automotive cognescenti.

A large, large part of the Pantera's problem can be attributed to a small but 
highly visible part of the Pantera owner demographic--the knuckle-draggers.   
While most Panteras are owned by upper middle class, educated people with a 
passion for sports cars, quite a few have been owned by ignorant louts.   How 
many people on this forum have purchased Panteras that have been owned by 
people like this?   We're talking trailer trash, the type of people who just 
butcher these cars from front to back, with incredible hackery to the wiring, highly 
questionable mechanical modifications (usually because something broke and 
the owners were unwilling or unable to fix it properly, so they just performed a 
kluge to get it down the road), garish and/or tasteless cosmetic additions, 
etc. etc.   

(My Pantera had been owned by just such an individual, I might add).

People on this forum have had to work very hard, after rescuing a Pantera 
from one of these pinheads, to straighten out all the damage they have done.   
But prior to selling their car, these guys stank up enough car shows to 
permanently tarnish the car's reputation.

This isn't a question of financial worth, education or social status.   This 
is question of class.   Not socioeconomic class--there are plenty of poor 
people who have more class in their pinkies than rich people have in their entire 
families.   But the knuckle-dragger Pantera owners I'm referring to, whether 
they are rich or poor, educated or not, were distinctly lacking in class, and 
are an embarassment to the rest of us.

It is up to each one of us to help eradicate the negative stereotypes that 
have been laid upon the Pantera generally, and Pantera owners specifically.   
First of all, it's important to be educated about our own cars, so that we can 
answer questions intelligently.   I remember one year at Concorso Italiano, an 
owner was interviewed on the stage, and made it quite clear to everyone that 
he was a complete goon, who knew nothing about his own car, or the cars 
generally, and made some comments that were highly unflattering both to himself and 
the Pantera.

It's important to be respectful of the owners of other marques (well, we can 
dog on Corvettes here on the forum, and play around with those guys at Silver 
State of course).   But pulling out your schwantz and taking a leak on 
somebody's Porsche while swilling your 24th beer (yes, I've seen it happen) doesn't 
exactly endear us to anyone or impress anyone.   And, when leaving a car show 
held on a beautiful golf course, sidestepping the clutch and tearing out 100 
feet of fairway as you leave, flinging grass and dirt clods all over the place 
(yes, I've seen that done too) has a similar negative impact.   That sort of 
behavior is perceived as being 'typical Pantera owner' behavior, sadly.

Having said all that, I must say that we as a group have been helped greatly 
by people who exhibit what *I* consider to be 'typical Pantera owner' 
behavior.   One year coming home from Concorso Italiano, a Ferrari F-40 heaved all its 
oil overboard and was broken down on the side of a two-lane road.   Hundreds 
of Ferraris drove right past this guy, but a convoy of Panteras stopped, the 
PCNC tech crew went to work, Larry Stock drove back to the hotel and came back 
with his flat bed tow truck, and I know they managed to fix his car and send 
him down the road.   

I've seen that sort of thing more than once, with Pantera guys pitching in to 
help fix somebody else's non-Pantera, or otherwise lending a hand in a time 
of need.

And the small but highly visible Pantera contingent at Silver State, Big Bend 
etc. is respected not only for the quality of their cars (Dan Courtney's 
excepted, HAH!), but also for their genuine enthusiasm and friendliness.

On an unrelated note, automotive purists generally are put off by cars which 
are modified, and because of the Pantera's very nature, a substantial 
percentage of them have been extensively altered.   While many of these mechanical and 
even cosmetic modifications are positive in nature, genuinely improving the 
cars, those who take the Pantera to be an Italian Street Rod (completely 
bedecked with chrome, flashy paint etc.) are looked down upon by the Porsche, 
Ferrari etc. purists.

To me though, that is the beauty of the Pantera.   It is the nearest thing to 
an automotive chameleon I've ever seen, with examples running the gamut from 
exotic Italian supercar, to gutted-out road racer, to blinged-out 
no-go-showboat street rods.   About which other car can such a thing be said?

And finally, when lamenting the values of our cars, you can console yourself 
with this fact--at least it's not a Maserati.   For completely different 
reasons, Maseratis (at least of the same vintage as the Pantera) get even less 
respect.   A Maserati Merak, for instance, is arguably a much more exotic car than 
a Pantera, yet they command very little value.   Asking prices 
notwithstanding, the reality is that $20K will buy you a concours-perfect Merak.   Bora 
values are about the same as a Pantera, even though, again, it's arguably a much 
more exotic car, with an Italian four-cam V8, hydraulic everything, etc.

You literally can't give a Quattroporte away, unless it's flawless, and even 
then it will struggle to achieve $10K.

So those guys have their own set of problems, completely unrelated to ours 
for the most part.

In the end, although I wish the Pantera received more respect from the world 
generally, I'm glad they are where they are.   The fact that they aren't 
six-figure cars means they can be enjoyed and driven, as they were meant to be, 
instead of being endlessly polished and primped and preened and talked about, the 
way most contemporary Ferraris, Lamborghinis etc. are.

And although I obviously have no use for the knuckle-dragger clan, overall 
I'd have to say that Pantera owners, as a group, are just about the finest 
people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.   Covering a wide cross-section of 
society, they are almost universally wonderful folks--what Sarah Palin would 
consider "Real American" people (and that includes the Eurodudes, Aussies and 
Japanese owners as well).

So, in the end, don't worry about what other people say or think about our 
cars.   We know what they are, what their strengths and weaknesses are, and we 
can live with them, and be happy with them.

And that's what it's all about!

Mike





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