[DeTomaso] Panteras  VS.  Other collector cars

Kirby Schrader kirby.schrader at gmail.com
Tue Nov 18 07:27:53 EST 2008


Hey! I bought my Pantera in Larned which is just over an hour from  
Dodge City!

Nobody, eh? I'm devastated.... You really know how to hurt a guy, Mike.

:-)

On 18 Nov 2008, at 12:16 AM, mikeldrew at aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 11/17/08 17 04 41, partsman912 at aol.com writes:
>
>
>> My question to experienced Pantera owners is this : Why is the  
>> Pantera
>> being left behind in the collector car world compared to others in  
>> its class ?? I
>> see several wonderful Panteras for sale at reasonable prices , that  
>> appear
>> to languish on the market with hardly any activity at all, to?be  
>> relisted
>> again and again. This despite other marques that seem to create a  
>> feeding frenzy
>> the minute they it the market .
>>
>
>
>
> If you're talking about specific cars, this can often be caused by  
> them being
> geographically remote (Nobody wants to buy a Pantera from Dodge  
> City, Kansas,
> or some place like that).   Panteras near large population centers  
> normally
> command a decent price, but if it's out in the sticks, that's hard  
> on the
> sellers.   Doug Kelm, for instance, freaking *gave* his Pantera  
> away, just because
> he was selling it in Minnesota and he was unwilling to make the  
> effort to
> transport the car to a more favorable location.   He easily left  
> $15K on the
> table, and the car went to a VERY lucky buyer overseas, who was no  
> closer to
> Minnesota than he was to Los Angeles or San Jose or Houston or  
> whatever.
>
> There are a number of reasons the Pantera languishes behind its  
> bretheren in
> the marketplace generally, however.   What other people have said is  
> true--the
> car got a bad rap when it was first released (well, actually, it was a
> well-deserved bad rap) because it was rushed to market, and it never  
> really overcame
> the stigmas of overheating, poor build quality etc.   This despite  
> the fact
> that by 1973, they really were excellent, turn-key cars right off the
> dealership floor.
>
> Some people have asserted that the American V-8 contributes to  
> holding the
> values down.   That is only true indirectly, at least in this  
> country.   It's
> true overseas, because furreners are afraid of American V-8s (it's  
> apparently
> easier to get Ferrari bits than Ford bits in France, for example).    
> But over
> here, simply having an American engine doesn't automatically hurt a  
> car's value.
>  For example, consider the Bizzarrini or the Iso Grifo.   Both are
> American-powered, yet both command much respect among the automotive  
> cognescenti.
>
> A large, large part of the Pantera's problem can be attributed to a  
> small but
> highly visible part of the Pantera owner demographic--the knuckle- 
> draggers.
> While most Panteras are owned by upper middle class, educated people  
> with a
> passion for sports cars, quite a few have been owned by ignorant  
> louts.   How
> many people on this forum have purchased Panteras that have been  
> owned by
> people like this?   We're talking trailer trash, the type of people  
> who just
> butcher these cars from front to back, with incredible hackery to  
> the wiring, highly
> questionable mechanical modifications (usually because something  
> broke and
> the owners were unwilling or unable to fix it properly, so they just  
> performed a
> kluge to get it down the road), garish and/or tasteless cosmetic  
> additions,
> etc. etc.
>
> (My Pantera had been owned by just such an individual, I might add).
>
> People on this forum have had to work very hard, after rescuing a  
> Pantera
> from one of these pinheads, to straighten out all the damage they  
> have done.
> But prior to selling their car, these guys stank up enough car shows  
> to
> permanently tarnish the car's reputation.
>
> This isn't a question of financial worth, education or social  
> status.   This
> is question of class.   Not socioeconomic class--there are plenty of  
> poor
> people who have more class in their pinkies than rich people have in  
> their entire
> families.   But the knuckle-dragger Pantera owners I'm referring to,  
> whether
> they are rich or poor, educated or not, were distinctly lacking in  
> class, and
> are an embarassment to the rest of us.
>
> It is up to each one of us to help eradicate the negative  
> stereotypes that
> have been laid upon the Pantera generally, and Pantera owners  
> specifically.
> First of all, it's important to be educated about our own cars, so  
> that we can
> answer questions intelligently.   I remember one year at Concorso  
> Italiano, an
> owner was interviewed on the stage, and made it quite clear to  
> everyone that
> he was a complete goon, who knew nothing about his own car, or the  
> cars
> generally, and made some comments that were highly unflattering both  
> to himself and
> the Pantera.
>
> It's important to be respectful of the owners of other marques  
> (well, we can
> dog on Corvettes here on the forum, and play around with those guys  
> at Silver
> State of course).   But pulling out your schwantz and taking a leak on
> somebody's Porsche while swilling your 24th beer (yes, I've seen it  
> happen) doesn't
> exactly endear us to anyone or impress anyone.   And, when leaving a  
> car show
> held on a beautiful golf course, sidestepping the clutch and tearing  
> out 100
> feet of fairway as you leave, flinging grass and dirt clods all over  
> the place
> (yes, I've seen that done too) has a similar negative impact.   That  
> sort of
> behavior is perceived as being 'typical Pantera owner' behavior,  
> sadly.
>
> Having said all that, I must say that we as a group have been helped  
> greatly
> by people who exhibit what *I* consider to be 'typical Pantera owner'
> behavior.   One year coming home from Concorso Italiano, a Ferrari  
> F-40 heaved all its
> oil overboard and was broken down on the side of a two-lane road.    
> Hundreds
> of Ferraris drove right past this guy, but a convoy of Panteras  
> stopped, the
> PCNC tech crew went to work, Larry Stock drove back to the hotel and  
> came back
> with his flat bed tow truck, and I know they managed to fix his car  
> and send
> him down the road.
>
> I've seen that sort of thing more than once, with Pantera guys  
> pitching in to
> help fix somebody else's non-Pantera, or otherwise lending a hand in  
> a time
> of need.
>
> And the small but highly visible Pantera contingent at Silver State,  
> Big Bend
> etc. is respected not only for the quality of their cars (Dan  
> Courtney's
> excepted, HAH!), but also for their genuine enthusiasm and  
> friendliness.
>
> On an unrelated note, automotive purists generally are put off by  
> cars which
> are modified, and because of the Pantera's very nature, a substantial
> percentage of them have been extensively altered.   While many of  
> these mechanical and
> even cosmetic modifications are positive in nature, genuinely  
> improving the
> cars, those who take the Pantera to be an Italian Street Rod  
> (completely
> bedecked with chrome, flashy paint etc.) are looked down upon by the  
> Porsche,
> Ferrari etc. purists.
>
> To me though, that is the beauty of the Pantera.   It is the nearest  
> thing to
> an automotive chameleon I've ever seen, with examples running the  
> gamut from
> exotic Italian supercar, to gutted-out road racer, to blinged-out
> no-go-showboat street rods.   About which other car can such a thing  
> be said?
>
> And finally, when lamenting the values of our cars, you can console  
> yourself
> with this fact--at least it's not a Maserati.   For completely  
> different
> reasons, Maseratis (at least of the same vintage as the Pantera) get  
> even less
> respect.   A Maserati Merak, for instance, is arguably a much more  
> exotic car than
> a Pantera, yet they command very little value.   Asking prices
> notwithstanding, the reality is that $20K will buy you a concours- 
> perfect Merak.   Bora
> values are about the same as a Pantera, even though, again, it's  
> arguably a much
> more exotic car, with an Italian four-cam V8, hydraulic everything,  
> etc.
>
> You literally can't give a Quattroporte away, unless it's flawless,  
> and even
> then it will struggle to achieve $10K.
>
> So those guys have their own set of problems, completely unrelated  
> to ours
> for the most part.
>
> In the end, although I wish the Pantera received more respect from  
> the world
> generally, I'm glad they are where they are.   The fact that they  
> aren't
> six-figure cars means they can be enjoyed and driven, as they were  
> meant to be,
> instead of being endlessly polished and primped and preened and  
> talked about, the
> way most contemporary Ferraris, Lamborghinis etc. are.
>
> And although I obviously have no use for the knuckle-dragger clan,  
> overall
> I'd have to say that Pantera owners, as a group, are just about the  
> finest
> people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.   Covering a wide  
> cross-section of
> society, they are almost universally wonderful folks--what Sarah  
> Palin would
> consider "Real American" people (and that includes the Eurodudes,  
> Aussies and
> Japanese owners as well).
>
> So, in the end, don't worry about what other people say or think  
> about our
> cars.   We know what they are, what their strengths and weaknesses  
> are, and we
> can live with them, and be happy with them.
>
> And that's what it's all about!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
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