[DeTomaso] Panteras VS. Other collector cars
Kirby Schrader
kirby.schrader at gmail.com
Tue Nov 18 07:27:53 EST 2008
Hey! I bought my Pantera in Larned which is just over an hour from
Dodge City!
Nobody, eh? I'm devastated.... You really know how to hurt a guy, Mike.
:-)
On 18 Nov 2008, at 12:16 AM, mikeldrew at aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/17/08 17 04 41, partsman912 at aol.com writes:
>
>
>> My question to experienced Pantera owners is this : Why is the
>> Pantera
>> being left behind in the collector car world compared to others in
>> its class ?? I
>> see several wonderful Panteras for sale at reasonable prices , that
>> appear
>> to languish on the market with hardly any activity at all, to?be
>> relisted
>> again and again. This despite other marques that seem to create a
>> feeding frenzy
>> the minute they it the market .
>>
>
>
>
> If you're talking about specific cars, this can often be caused by
> them being
> geographically remote (Nobody wants to buy a Pantera from Dodge
> City, Kansas,
> or some place like that). Panteras near large population centers
> normally
> command a decent price, but if it's out in the sticks, that's hard
> on the
> sellers. Doug Kelm, for instance, freaking *gave* his Pantera
> away, just because
> he was selling it in Minnesota and he was unwilling to make the
> effort to
> transport the car to a more favorable location. He easily left
> $15K on the
> table, and the car went to a VERY lucky buyer overseas, who was no
> closer to
> Minnesota than he was to Los Angeles or San Jose or Houston or
> whatever.
>
> There are a number of reasons the Pantera languishes behind its
> bretheren in
> the marketplace generally, however. What other people have said is
> true--the
> car got a bad rap when it was first released (well, actually, it was a
> well-deserved bad rap) because it was rushed to market, and it never
> really overcame
> the stigmas of overheating, poor build quality etc. This despite
> the fact
> that by 1973, they really were excellent, turn-key cars right off the
> dealership floor.
>
> Some people have asserted that the American V-8 contributes to
> holding the
> values down. That is only true indirectly, at least in this
> country. It's
> true overseas, because furreners are afraid of American V-8s (it's
> apparently
> easier to get Ferrari bits than Ford bits in France, for example).
> But over
> here, simply having an American engine doesn't automatically hurt a
> car's value.
> For example, consider the Bizzarrini or the Iso Grifo. Both are
> American-powered, yet both command much respect among the automotive
> cognescenti.
>
> A large, large part of the Pantera's problem can be attributed to a
> small but
> highly visible part of the Pantera owner demographic--the knuckle-
> draggers.
> While most Panteras are owned by upper middle class, educated people
> with a
> passion for sports cars, quite a few have been owned by ignorant
> louts. How
> many people on this forum have purchased Panteras that have been
> owned by
> people like this? We're talking trailer trash, the type of people
> who just
> butcher these cars from front to back, with incredible hackery to
> the wiring, highly
> questionable mechanical modifications (usually because something
> broke and
> the owners were unwilling or unable to fix it properly, so they just
> performed a
> kluge to get it down the road), garish and/or tasteless cosmetic
> additions,
> etc. etc.
>
> (My Pantera had been owned by just such an individual, I might add).
>
> People on this forum have had to work very hard, after rescuing a
> Pantera
> from one of these pinheads, to straighten out all the damage they
> have done.
> But prior to selling their car, these guys stank up enough car shows
> to
> permanently tarnish the car's reputation.
>
> This isn't a question of financial worth, education or social
> status. This
> is question of class. Not socioeconomic class--there are plenty of
> poor
> people who have more class in their pinkies than rich people have in
> their entire
> families. But the knuckle-dragger Pantera owners I'm referring to,
> whether
> they are rich or poor, educated or not, were distinctly lacking in
> class, and
> are an embarassment to the rest of us.
>
> It is up to each one of us to help eradicate the negative
> stereotypes that
> have been laid upon the Pantera generally, and Pantera owners
> specifically.
> First of all, it's important to be educated about our own cars, so
> that we can
> answer questions intelligently. I remember one year at Concorso
> Italiano, an
> owner was interviewed on the stage, and made it quite clear to
> everyone that
> he was a complete goon, who knew nothing about his own car, or the
> cars
> generally, and made some comments that were highly unflattering both
> to himself and
> the Pantera.
>
> It's important to be respectful of the owners of other marques
> (well, we can
> dog on Corvettes here on the forum, and play around with those guys
> at Silver
> State of course). But pulling out your schwantz and taking a leak on
> somebody's Porsche while swilling your 24th beer (yes, I've seen it
> happen) doesn't
> exactly endear us to anyone or impress anyone. And, when leaving a
> car show
> held on a beautiful golf course, sidestepping the clutch and tearing
> out 100
> feet of fairway as you leave, flinging grass and dirt clods all over
> the place
> (yes, I've seen that done too) has a similar negative impact. That
> sort of
> behavior is perceived as being 'typical Pantera owner' behavior,
> sadly.
>
> Having said all that, I must say that we as a group have been helped
> greatly
> by people who exhibit what *I* consider to be 'typical Pantera owner'
> behavior. One year coming home from Concorso Italiano, a Ferrari
> F-40 heaved all its
> oil overboard and was broken down on the side of a two-lane road.
> Hundreds
> of Ferraris drove right past this guy, but a convoy of Panteras
> stopped, the
> PCNC tech crew went to work, Larry Stock drove back to the hotel and
> came back
> with his flat bed tow truck, and I know they managed to fix his car
> and send
> him down the road.
>
> I've seen that sort of thing more than once, with Pantera guys
> pitching in to
> help fix somebody else's non-Pantera, or otherwise lending a hand in
> a time
> of need.
>
> And the small but highly visible Pantera contingent at Silver State,
> Big Bend
> etc. is respected not only for the quality of their cars (Dan
> Courtney's
> excepted, HAH!), but also for their genuine enthusiasm and
> friendliness.
>
> On an unrelated note, automotive purists generally are put off by
> cars which
> are modified, and because of the Pantera's very nature, a substantial
> percentage of them have been extensively altered. While many of
> these mechanical and
> even cosmetic modifications are positive in nature, genuinely
> improving the
> cars, those who take the Pantera to be an Italian Street Rod
> (completely
> bedecked with chrome, flashy paint etc.) are looked down upon by the
> Porsche,
> Ferrari etc. purists.
>
> To me though, that is the beauty of the Pantera. It is the nearest
> thing to
> an automotive chameleon I've ever seen, with examples running the
> gamut from
> exotic Italian supercar, to gutted-out road racer, to blinged-out
> no-go-showboat street rods. About which other car can such a thing
> be said?
>
> And finally, when lamenting the values of our cars, you can console
> yourself
> with this fact--at least it's not a Maserati. For completely
> different
> reasons, Maseratis (at least of the same vintage as the Pantera) get
> even less
> respect. A Maserati Merak, for instance, is arguably a much more
> exotic car than
> a Pantera, yet they command very little value. Asking prices
> notwithstanding, the reality is that $20K will buy you a concours-
> perfect Merak. Bora
> values are about the same as a Pantera, even though, again, it's
> arguably a much
> more exotic car, with an Italian four-cam V8, hydraulic everything,
> etc.
>
> You literally can't give a Quattroporte away, unless it's flawless,
> and even
> then it will struggle to achieve $10K.
>
> So those guys have their own set of problems, completely unrelated
> to ours
> for the most part.
>
> In the end, although I wish the Pantera received more respect from
> the world
> generally, I'm glad they are where they are. The fact that they
> aren't
> six-figure cars means they can be enjoyed and driven, as they were
> meant to be,
> instead of being endlessly polished and primped and preened and
> talked about, the
> way most contemporary Ferraris, Lamborghinis etc. are.
>
> And although I obviously have no use for the knuckle-dragger clan,
> overall
> I'd have to say that Pantera owners, as a group, are just about the
> finest
> people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Covering a wide
> cross-section of
> society, they are almost universally wonderful folks--what Sarah
> Palin would
> consider "Real American" people (and that includes the Eurodudes,
> Aussies and
> Japanese owners as well).
>
> So, in the end, don't worry about what other people say or think
> about our
> cars. We know what they are, what their strengths and weaknesses
> are, and we
> can live with them, and be happy with them.
>
> And that's what it's all about!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
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