[DeTomaso] Panteras VS. Other collector cars
wkooiman at earthlink.net
wkooiman at earthlink.net
Tue Nov 18 01:49:56 EST 2008
I personally don't think it's so much the knuckledraggers as it is the bad press.
I've had more than one "old-timer" say something like, "YOU WANT A PANTERA??? My God! Why?"
That was before I bought my car.
I asked, why not? They said, it overheats and it's a rust bucket. They also said something like, "An American Ferrari. Yeah, right!"
Of course, neither are true (overheating or rust bucket) - at least not anymore.
And then, there have been multiple people that I've met that couldn't afford to pay a mechanic to fix it right. If you don't live near one of the major vendors, you pretty much need to do the work yourself. If you're not a gear head, the maintenance can be expensive - until your mechanic gets educated.
And then there are the guys that are impressed. They say something like, "Is it as fast as a Ferrari?" I normally say, "Only if I pull 3 plug wires off."
Why are we so worred about the value anyway? Keep the price low. I'd like to buy a 2nd Pantera someday. After that, I don't care.
Will.
-----Original Message-----
>From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
>Sent: Nov 18, 2008 1:16 AM
>To: Partsman912 at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Panteras VS. Other collector cars
>
>
>In a message dated 11/17/08 17 04 41, partsman912 at aol.com writes:
>
>
>> My question to experienced Pantera owners is this : Why is the Pantera
>> being left behind in the collector car world compared to others in its class ?? I
>> see several wonderful Panteras for sale at reasonable prices , that appear
>> to languish on the market with hardly any activity at all, to?be relisted
>> again and again. This despite other marques that seem to create a feeding frenzy
>> the minute they it the market .
>>
>
>
>
>If you're talking about specific cars, this can often be caused by them being
>geographically remote (Nobody wants to buy a Pantera from Dodge City, Kansas,
>or some place like that). Panteras near large population centers normally
>command a decent price, but if it's out in the sticks, that's hard on the
>sellers. Doug Kelm, for instance, freaking *gave* his Pantera away, just because
>he was selling it in Minnesota and he was unwilling to make the effort to
>transport the car to a more favorable location. He easily left $15K on the
>table, and the car went to a VERY lucky buyer overseas, who was no closer to
>Minnesota than he was to Los Angeles or San Jose or Houston or whatever.
>
>There are a number of reasons the Pantera languishes behind its bretheren in
>the marketplace generally, however. What other people have said is true--the
>car got a bad rap when it was first released (well, actually, it was a
>well-deserved bad rap) because it was rushed to market, and it never really overcame
>the stigmas of overheating, poor build quality etc. This despite the fact
>that by 1973, they really were excellent, turn-key cars right off the
>dealership floor.
>
>Some people have asserted that the American V-8 contributes to holding the
>values down. That is only true indirectly, at least in this country. It's
>true overseas, because furreners are afraid of American V-8s (it's apparently
>easier to get Ferrari bits than Ford bits in France, for example). But over
>here, simply having an American engine doesn't automatically hurt a car's value.
> For example, consider the Bizzarrini or the Iso Grifo. Both are
>American-powered, yet both command much respect among the automotive cognescenti.
>
>A large, large part of the Pantera's problem can be attributed to a small but
>highly visible part of the Pantera owner demographic--the knuckle-draggers.
>While most Panteras are owned by upper middle class, educated people with a
>passion for sports cars, quite a few have been owned by ignorant louts. How
>many people on this forum have purchased Panteras that have been owned by
>people like this? We're talking trailer trash, the type of people who just
>butcher these cars from front to back, with incredible hackery to the wiring, highly
>questionable mechanical modifications (usually because something broke and
>the owners were unwilling or unable to fix it properly, so they just performed a
>kluge to get it down the road), garish and/or tasteless cosmetic additions,
>etc. etc.
>
>(My Pantera had been owned by just such an individual, I might add).
>
>People on this forum have had to work very hard, after rescuing a Pantera
>from one of these pinheads, to straighten out all the damage they have done.
>But prior to selling their car, these guys stank up enough car shows to
>permanently tarnish the car's reputation.
>
>This isn't a question of financial worth, education or social status. This
>is question of class. Not socioeconomic class--there are plenty of poor
>people who have more class in their pinkies than rich people have in their entire
>families. But the knuckle-dragger Pantera owners I'm referring to, whether
>they are rich or poor, educated or not, were distinctly lacking in class, and
>are an embarassment to the rest of us.
>
>It is up to each one of us to help eradicate the negative stereotypes that
>have been laid upon the Pantera generally, and Pantera owners specifically.
>First of all, it's important to be educated about our own cars, so that we can
>answer questions intelligently. I remember one year at Concorso Italiano, an
>owner was interviewed on the stage, and made it quite clear to everyone that
>he was a complete goon, who knew nothing about his own car, or the cars
>generally, and made some comments that were highly unflattering both to himself and
>the Pantera.
>
>It's important to be respectful of the owners of other marques (well, we can
>dog on Corvettes here on the forum, and play around with those guys at Silver
>State of course). But pulling out your schwantz and taking a leak on
>somebody's Porsche while swilling your 24th beer (yes, I've seen it happen) doesn't
>exactly endear us to anyone or impress anyone. And, when leaving a car show
>held on a beautiful golf course, sidestepping the clutch and tearing out 100
>feet of fairway as you leave, flinging grass and dirt clods all over the place
>(yes, I've seen that done too) has a similar negative impact. That sort of
>behavior is perceived as being 'typical Pantera owner' behavior, sadly.
>
>Having said all that, I must say that we as a group have been helped greatly
>by people who exhibit what *I* consider to be 'typical Pantera owner'
>behavior. One year coming home from Concorso Italiano, a Ferrari F-40 heaved all its
>oil overboard and was broken down on the side of a two-lane road. Hundreds
>of Ferraris drove right past this guy, but a convoy of Panteras stopped, the
>PCNC tech crew went to work, Larry Stock drove back to the hotel and came back
>with his flat bed tow truck, and I know they managed to fix his car and send
>him down the road.
>
>I've seen that sort of thing more than once, with Pantera guys pitching in to
>help fix somebody else's non-Pantera, or otherwise lending a hand in a time
>of need.
>
>And the small but highly visible Pantera contingent at Silver State, Big Bend
>etc. is respected not only for the quality of their cars (Dan Courtney's
>excepted, HAH!), but also for their genuine enthusiasm and friendliness.
>
>On an unrelated note, automotive purists generally are put off by cars which
>are modified, and because of the Pantera's very nature, a substantial
>percentage of them have been extensively altered. While many of these mechanical and
>even cosmetic modifications are positive in nature, genuinely improving the
>cars, those who take the Pantera to be an Italian Street Rod (completely
>bedecked with chrome, flashy paint etc.) are looked down upon by the Porsche,
>Ferrari etc. purists.
>
>To me though, that is the beauty of the Pantera. It is the nearest thing to
>an automotive chameleon I've ever seen, with examples running the gamut from
>exotic Italian supercar, to gutted-out road racer, to blinged-out
>no-go-showboat street rods. About which other car can such a thing be said?
>
>And finally, when lamenting the values of our cars, you can console yourself
>with this fact--at least it's not a Maserati. For completely different
>reasons, Maseratis (at least of the same vintage as the Pantera) get even less
>respect. A Maserati Merak, for instance, is arguably a much more exotic car than
>a Pantera, yet they command very little value. Asking prices
>notwithstanding, the reality is that $20K will buy you a concours-perfect Merak. Bora
>values are about the same as a Pantera, even though, again, it's arguably a much
>more exotic car, with an Italian four-cam V8, hydraulic everything, etc.
>
>You literally can't give a Quattroporte away, unless it's flawless, and even
>then it will struggle to achieve $10K.
>
>So those guys have their own set of problems, completely unrelated to ours
>for the most part.
>
>In the end, although I wish the Pantera received more respect from the world
>generally, I'm glad they are where they are. The fact that they aren't
>six-figure cars means they can be enjoyed and driven, as they were meant to be,
>instead of being endlessly polished and primped and preened and talked about, the
>way most contemporary Ferraris, Lamborghinis etc. are.
>
>And although I obviously have no use for the knuckle-dragger clan, overall
>I'd have to say that Pantera owners, as a group, are just about the finest
>people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Covering a wide cross-section of
>society, they are almost universally wonderful folks--what Sarah Palin would
>consider "Real American" people (and that includes the Eurodudes, Aussies and
>Japanese owners as well).
>
>So, in the end, don't worry about what other people say or think about our
>cars. We know what they are, what their strengths and weaknesses are, and we
>can live with them, and be happy with them.
>
>And that's what it's all about!
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>
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