[DeTomaso] Texas Pantera Aerodynamics

Mad Dog Antenucci teampantera at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 12 00:10:02 EST 2008


Exactly right JT......I have run most of 2-3 ORR's faster then any of you slackers with the front hood unlatched the entire distance and it never rose more then a couple inches. Glad you are planning an assault,....please don't try and go faster then a 100 mph ;-]>
   
  D

John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com> wrote:
  Why the hood rises.

Air goes through the radiator and strikes the panel that forms the front of 
the trunk. While most of the air may flow down and under the car, pressure 
builds at this location and air is forced up against the hood effectively 
raising it. As the hood begins to lift, air flows over the seal on that 
front panel and begins to flow out toward the windshield effectively 
overcoming the downward pressure exerted from air flowing over the hood. I 
opine that if the cause of lift was air flowing over the arch of the hood, 
it wouldn't stop rising at 2".

JT
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Green" 
To: ; 
Cc: ; "pantera list" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aerodynamics


>
> I suspect that you are comparing apples to oranges here. I think the hood 
> raises because of low pressure above the hood's top surface and the wiper 
> raise because of the air flow past them.
>
> Ken
>
> --- On Tue, 11/11/08, michael at michaelshortt.com 
> wrote:
>
> From: michael at michaelshortt.com 
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aerodynamics
> To: teampantera at yahoo.com
> Cc: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com, "pantera list" 
> Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 12:39 PM
>
> I can easily vouch for 150 mph raising wipers 3-4" off the glass, I forgot
> and left mine on the car last Saturday ( normally in the boot ) while
> playing out in the country.
>
> Michael in Savannah
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:07 PM, wrote:
>
>> Agreed...will be there...maybe Bob Benson too from left coast n maybe the
>> Pope Adin n Tom DiIulio from colorado
>>
>> MD
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: michael frazier 
>>
>> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:02:56
>> To: Dennis Antenucci; pantera list<
>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Aerodynamics
>>
>>
>>
>> I hate to tell you this, but it's near the end of 2008 and there was
> a
>> race in April. That's where this shot came from. I had a 140mph
>> tech speed but couldn't miss a good photo op and sound effects for the
>> team. Not bad for a 125hp. The '96 Vette belonged to Jim (navi)
>> and we ran it while I was getting this last Pantera running. This year
> the
>> Pantera did touch the frame right at the back, but I have a
>> jacking plate and it just cleaned the grease off. The car is pretty
>> low...the lower control arms are angled up slightly towards the wheels.
>> I've had the other 2 cars up to these speeds before with no aero mods
> and
>> didn't have any problems. This Gp4 car was just as stable but
>> we were running a faster average speed. Moving up 20mph average is a big
>> jump on that road. So I don't know if the air dam or the flat black
>> paint contributed to that, probably both. Even the Vette guys were glad
> to
>> see a Pantera back at the event. Really, I got more response
>> from them than any other group. Everybody loved the black. The tires 
>> are
>> showing the cords so I have to paint them black too.
>> I think we (Team Pantera) are going to make an all out assault on Big
> Bend
>> this year. That's a good thing. After the women and children get
>> over their initial fear, they get so friendly and cuddly. :) Be there.
>> Michael
>> Gruppo Rompiculi Corsa Y'all BBORR April 2009
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:47:14 -0800From: teampantera at yahoo.comSubject:
>> Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera AerodynamicsTo: red3644 at hotmail.com;
>> mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
>> Wait a minute...I just went to the BBORR web site.....Of course those two
>> Bobo's were NOT driving a Pantera last year...it was a '96 GM
> Veeeeeeeete in
>> 2007. And yea his Corvette didn't have any lift running 120 to 150
> because
>> both their fat asses kept the Corvette from falling apart or regrading 
>> the
>> road at those slow poke speeds!
>>
>> When 250 pound Larry Stock and his 250 pound naviquesser did the Pony
>> Express with us they tried but failed to grind down the road lip over a
>> bridge...wiped out his suspension or what was left of it! Bridge
>> survived...Afterwards we had to change Larry's Depends. ;-]>
>>
>> Seriously and all kidding of MF'r and his one time run in his Vette he
>> still is the man to beat in locking in time and distance...In fact I 
>> think
>> the reason he ran his Vette was because of some ugly rumors that the 
>> Vette
>> guys really did not believe his Pantera was a REAL Pantera...... I think
> the
>> operative word here is "Real Pantera" and at what speed aero
> drag becomes a
>> challenge.
>>
>> I know the Pantera stock out of the box is good for sustained speeds up 
>> to
>> 160 with just a few minor changes MF'r and others have wrote about.
> The Big
>> Bend ORR is a challenging road. Lots of elevation changes and off camber
>> turns. You do not want to get in over your head on that or any of the
> other
>> ORR roads in Nebraska or Mexico. Lots of turns, drop offs and blind 
>> hills.
>> All great roads for spirited legal driving at speed.
>>
>> When MF'r ran an average of just under 125 Mph in the Corvette which
> is
>> still a handfull on that Fort Stockton to Sanderson and back road he did
> so
>> knowing he would sacrafice one for the team. ;-]>
>>
>> I originally ran my Pantera at ALL the open road races with no air dam,
>> side skirts or rear wings. And did not need them for Texas either. And
>> really have not needed them below 140 in the Nevada ORR's....when you
> start
>> running '' sustained-average " speeds of 140+ plus then you
> can greatly
>> appreciate the aero improvements.
>>
>> okay, done pissing off my buds in Texas! ;-]>
>> See you'all in April
>>
>> Mad Dawg
>>
>> michael frazier wrote:
>> Mike Drew wrote: Although it's possible that your front trunk is
>> pressurized, I wouldn't necessarily bet on it. The top of the hood is
> shaped
>> exactly like an airplane wing, and probably generates an enormous amount
> of
>> lift all by itself; the trunk isn't strong enough to resist
> deformation at
>> those speeds. You could try adding material to the front trunk
>> weatherstripping (that is, adding another layer of stick-on
> weatherstripping
>> on the top to ensure a good seal with the hood) and see what happens?Some
>> vendor's carbon fiber units are often much, much worse in this regard.
> Even
>> vented carbon fiber hoods aren't strong enough, and will bow enough to
> pop
>> open above 100 mph. Geoff Peters threw one or two of them away before
> buying
>> one from Sigbjorn in Norway that was properly made.I thought about that
> too.
>> It does have the right shape but the angle of attack is pretty high too.
> I'm
>> thinking those even out. There has to be a great deal ofpressure up high
>> behind the radiator too. Anyway, just posted the pic for general info. 
>> The
>> car looks a bit low in back because the 345-35s are too short for a
> Pantera
>> with Gp4 flares. Destined to run grooved slicks. And as Dave suggested we
>> were accelerating briskly when we made the pass. Luckilyno radar points
> were
>> around or we would not have taken another win. So, no real front lift
>> problems. That style air dam works for me (with bracing behind
> it).We'll do
>> another test near the end of April at Big Bend! See everyone
>> there.MichaelGruppo Rompiculi Corsa!!
>> _________________________________________________________________Color
>> coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email.
>>
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_112008_______________________________________________DetomasoForum
> Managed by POCAArchive Search Engine Now Available at
>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/DeTomaso mailing listDeTomaso
>> @list.realbig.comhttp://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> Mad Dawg Antenucci Team Pantera Racing
>> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
>> www.teampanteraracing.com
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows
>> Live
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
> notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 




Mad Dawg Antenucci 
Team Pantera Racing 
  The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com



More information about the DeTomaso mailing list