[DeTomaso] ZF losses

Mad Dog Antenucci teampantera at yahoo.com
Wed Mar 26 11:25:09 EDT 2008


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  Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car.
  Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
  HORSEPOWER is how fast you hit the wall.
  Torque is how far in you push the wall.
   
  Mad Dawg Antenucci
  Team Pantera Racing
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Ron Graves <rlg1973dt at charter.net> wrote:
  Without researching all that has been said on this subject before, we should note that the difference between wheel- and crankshaft dynos is more than just the transaxle losses. The chassis dyno test loses some power at the rollers due to tire flex and slip, and also the inertia type chassis dynos cause some power to be "lost" in accelerating the rotating mass of wheels, gears, brake rotors, etc.

---- tony DiGiovanna wrote: 
> I recall this topic. There were indeed several documented experiences and a
> number of variables, especially with respect to the configuration of the
> engine when engine dyno'd. For reasons I can no longer recall, I settled in
> on a value of 17% difference, which I now use as my generally-accepted
> conversion between engine dyno data and chassis dyno data for Panteras.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Charles Engles
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:52 PM
> To: chris terp
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF losses
> 
> 
> Dear Chris,
> 
> 
> Has anyone else had this experience? Well, yes. During
> the discussion some time ago there were at least three forum members that
> had flywheel and rear wheel dyno results on engine before and after
> installation. IIRC all the result were in the 20-25% range. I,too, was
> surprised, but is was a recurring number from different sources in all HP
> ranges.
> 
> 
> Mystified too, Chuck Engles
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: chris terp
> To: Charles Engles ; Will Demelo
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF losses
> 
> 
> Really - 20%? Has anyone else had this experience? I think I'll need a
> blower...or nitrous..or something...
> 
> Chris Terp
> #6751 (finally found the number)
> 
> Charles Engles wrote:
> Dear Will,
> 
> 
> Some time back there were several postings of engine dyno
> results on the dyno stand and on a chassis dyno. IIRC the average loss
> of
> measured horsepower from the dyno stand to the chassis dyno was about
> twenty
> percent loss. .
> Discussion was extensive as to where the twenty percent
> went: exhaust system restrictions, internal ZF friction, or etc. No
> consensus was reached except that there is an undeniable difference
> between
> the dyno stand and sitting in your Pantera and that the sink for the
> twenty
> percent loss contains various potential culprits.
> 
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Will Demelo"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 7:08 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] ZF losses
> 
> 
> > What are the dyno proven losses through a ZF?
> > Will
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Mad Dawg Antenucci 
Team Pantera Racing 
  The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
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