[DeTomaso] [] 302 attention Frank

Sun Feb 17 01:45:49 EST 2008

I, for one, think anything an owner does to personalize his or her Pantera is great, as long as it's in good taste.  The cars are
beautiful and meant to enjoy.  Besides, it sounds as if your 302 has a lot more power than a lot of larger engines.

Sincerely,

Chris
#3846

> From: rimov at charter.net
> To: DeTomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:28:30 -0800
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [] 302 attention Frank
> 
> Evening Frank and any one else following this thread:
> 
> I can not send pics through the forum they would have to be sent to your
> personal E-mail.
> 
> "were there any other issues with installing the 302:  water pump, routing
> cooling lines, motor mounts, throttle linkage, header design, clearance
> problems, etc."
> There are a host of small problems that need addressing. A lot of them
> depend on what you want and whether your are planning for  EFI or a Carb 
> engine management. For example I wanted a
> serpentine belt set up that cost a bunch more than just going with a pair of
> conventional V-belts to drive the alternator and A/C. If you are going EFI
> then there is all the additional wiring, senders, relays, sensors and the 
> ECU its self
> to work with. A conventional carb is very straightforward. I wanted an EFI
> engine and I wanted the fuel pump to be in the tank were it should be so I
> had to come up with a self contained bracket to hold the pump and
> accommodate a high pressure return line and low pressure vapor line. A
> carbed engine you simply run the existing fuel line to the mechanical fuel
> pump on the engine then from the fuel pump to a fuel filter then to the
> carb. Headers are big deal, because no one makes headers for a 302 for
> Pantera and there is precious little space for proper length headers in the
> engine bay. Some of the Pantera vendors have headers for 351w but they will
> not even come close to fitting even though both engines use the same heads.
> The first set I fashioned were simple shorties but after testing them out
> and working with a cam specialist I realized I needed to double the primary
> length of the headers for proper scavenging of the exhaust pulses and waves
> for much improved performance and a broader power range. With that said
> Stainlessworks can make additional sets for me but they are several times
> more expensive than headers currently available for 351w and 351c for the
> Pantera as they are hand made one at a time out of 304 stainless but not any
> more expensive that if you wanted stainless headers for your new ZR1.
> 
> The 302, being smaller than the Cleveland actually fits better in the engine
> bay and for the short time I had it running it ran a ton cooler due in part
> I believe to the increase air space around the engine. The only real re-
> routing of the cooling lines was upper radiator hose to the high pressure
> tank and that was easily solved by using a water snout from a 69 cougar,
> every thing else is about the same. No problems with the water pump and
> there are lots to choose from. I had to have a custom throttle cable made
> and fabricated my own brackets but again not much of a hurdle. If you go
> with a Carb set up the stock throttle set up will work just fine.
> 
> Like I said from my earlier post the 302 bolts right up to the ZF transaxle
> and even takes advantage of an additional bolt. The stock motor mount bolt
> right up as well. Depending on whether you are going with a carb or EFI the
> distributor cap of the TFI of the Ford distributor is really tight. If I
> were to do it again I would use a DIS, EIDS and coil packs from a late model
> 5.0 Explorer and still may someday. Another, expense was the custom 10 quart
> oil pan nothing less should ever be used in a Pantera with its handling
> ability. But again now that I had Steffs made one they can made additional
> ones quite easily.
> 
> To answer your question about the Dart block, money with standing, an
> aluminum Dart block would be very good choice for a Pantera in my opinion,
> but I am extremely unique in my thinking regarding putting anything other
> than a Cleveland and a smaller motor to boot amongst the Pantera community
> at large.I think the majority feel it sacrilege to power the car with any
> thing other than a Cleveland unless it is a 427 or bigger, kinda like
> putting spinners on your 360," whoa that's just not right".  The 302 is a
> much lighter engine and even the majority of Pantera owners can not argue
> that any thing you can do to shed weight especially from the rear improves
> already amazing handling from a 35 year old car one of the additional
> reasons I chose to pursue such an unorthodox engine swap. I think my only
> saving grace from total ossification from my friends and the Pantera
> community is that the engine is a Ford and I have and always will perform
> all my own work regardless of the difficulty of the challenge. I would love
> to have found a solid condition aluminum block and actually had one 
> initially for this project
> but it had some issues that I was not comfortable with and the price of new 
> ones were too
> cost prohibitive so I decided to work with the Cobra block I found.
> I would be curious to know a little more about the block.
> 
> Cheers and let me know were you would like me to shoot you a few pics
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "fkhjr To: List-Subscribe:"
> <fkhjr at cox.netdetomaso@realbig.comhttp://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>;
> "Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com"
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> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 7:57 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] [] 302
> 
> 
> > paul,
> > i'd love to see picts.  > i've just completed a project with a 302 and i'm
> > working
> > on another, both non pantera.  a friend owns a speed
> > shop and he's offered me what seems like a very good
> > deal on a  dart aluminum 302 block.  thought i would
> > make a nice motor for a pantera if i can ever find one.
> > just want to make sure it's not more trouble than
> > it's worth.
> > frank
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> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "fkhjr To: List-Subscribe:" 
> <fkhjr at cox.netdetomaso@realbig.comhttp://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>; 
> "Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com" 
> <mailto:detomaso-request at list.realbig.com?subject=subscribe>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 7:57 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] [] 302
> 
> 
> > paul,
> > i'd love to see picts.  were there any other issues
> > with installing the 302:  water pump, routing cooling
> > lines, motor mounts, throttle linkage, header design,
> > clearance problems, etc.
> > i've just completed a project with a 302 and i'm working
> > on another, both non pantera.  a friend owns a speed
> > shop and he's offered me what seems like a very good
> > deal on a  dart aluminum 302 block.  thought i would
> > make a nice motor for a pantera if i can ever find one.
> > just want to make sure it's not more trouble than
> > it's worth.
> > frank
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
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> 
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