[DeTomaso] California driver Pantera for sale--full review
asajay at asajay.com
asajay at asajay.com
Mon Feb 11 12:32:38 EST 2008
Nice report Mike,
And for those who wonder about values. Mike took a look at a 1973
Pantera L about 10 years ago, in similar condition. At the time, Mike
generally appraised the value at about $10K less that he did this one.
So in my mind that tells me that Pantera values are going up. Hurray!
Asa Jay
Quoting MikeLDrew at aol.com:
> As many of you know, I periodically examine Panteras for sale on behalf of
> interested buyers, or sometimes just to try to get information out
> to the public
> at large. A few months ago a fellow up in Washington approached me and
> asked me to examine a Pantera that was advertised for sale on
> Craigslist, in the
> Sacramento (CA) area. Work prevented me from getting a chance to
> see it until
> just yesterday, and in the meantime, that potential buyer backed away from
> the idea; apparently his financial footing has become a bit shaky in light of
> recent stock market developments etc.
>
> But I was intrigued enough about the car to want to see it anyway.
>
> The car in question is a 1973 Pantera L, THPNNG06153, with a BSN of 51867.
> The seller is named Chris Katz, and he has only owned the car for about two
> years. He is the third owner; the person he bought it from lived in the
> suburbs of San Francisco and had owned the car since 1979.
>
> Broadly, the car can be characterized as a somewhat scruffy looking but
> extremely structurally sound driver.
>
> The previous owner was quite proud of the fact that he had painted the car
> himself in his garage. It was his first paint job, and this is obvious the
> moment you look at it closely. Attention to detail is sorely
> lacking, there is
> overspray everywhere, and several panels (most notably the front hood) show
> evidence of improper preparation. Having said that, the paint looks good if
> you look at it from 20 feet away. Well, if you squint hard anyway….
>
> But it's not so terrible that you would be embarrassed to be seen driving it
> down the road. And underneath the paint, other than a minor door ding here
> and there, and one notable scratch on the left side (where
> apparently a garden
> tool was dragged on the car while it was stored in a tight garage), the body
> itself appears to be quite straight and true. So I suspect that
> only minimal
> bodywork would be necessary when the car is painted properly.
>
> The car has its original wheels (you would be surprised at how many Panteras
> are wearing mis-matched wheels, as one or more wheels are damaged sometime
> along the way and replaced with similar, but not identical Campy
> wheels). They
> are fitted with very old, but seemingly excellent tires, Goodyear NCT
> 265/60-15 rear (a perfect tire size for this car, wish they were
> still made), and
> different Goodyear 205/60-15 fronts.
>
> There is a single Ford mirror on the driver's door and no passenger side
> mirror.
>
> As this is a later 1973 car, it is built to the 1974 specification and thus
> has wipers which park on the right hand side, and are rather intrusive when
> viewed from behind the wheel. Thank the DOT for that one!
>
> The reflector housings are suffering a bit; not only is the chrome finish
> greatly tarnished, but they are also extensively tagged with red
> overspray. I
> don't know if it would be practical to clean them up or not.
>
> The original front bumper is still in place, and it looks a bit dubious as
> well. The stock front bumper is steel, covered with a thick layer
> of rubber.
> Whatever the former owner did in an attempt to refurbish it, didn't work, so
> it looks pretty rough. The rear bumper is in much better condition.
>
> Oddly, both front splash shields (which protect the headlights etc. from
> water spray and rock debris thrown up by the spinning front tires)
> are missing;
> replacing them is a matter of a few minutes with a pair of scissors and
> cardboard to make templates, then tin snips and sheetmetal. A few
> coats of spray
> paint, drill a few holes for sheetmetal screws, line them with some rubber
> weatherstripping and you're done.
>
> The interior is in very good condition considering that the car shows 78,4xx
> miles on the odometer. The brake pedal pad is missing, only because the
> owner finds that he keeps kicking it off accidentally, but he still has it.
>
> The stock seats have been sculpted by an upholstery shop to lower them in the
> center, while leaving a pronounced bolster in the front. Although stock
> Pantera seats are typically rather horrid affairs, these are surprisingly
> comfortable-easily among the best stock Pantera seats I have ever
> seen (or rather,
> felt). The turn signal switch is broken in the typical fashion, in that you
> have to hold it up manually to signal a right turn (it works
> normally in the LH
> direction).
>
> As the car has been fitted with a LeCarra wheel, it suffers the same fate as
> virtually every other Pantera with one of these wheels-the hub was
> over-tightened, which shattered the nylon bearing at the bottom of
> the steering column
> tube. The spring behind the hub then pushes the wheel/hub/shaft assembly
> upwards until the U-joint at the bottom of the shaft strikes the
> tube. The result
> is a pronounced in-and-out 'boing' action to the steering wheel, and
> noticeable drag from the U-joint dragging on the end of the tube.
> Fortunately the
> fix is simple-just replace the remnants of the broken nylon bearing
> with a new
> oillite bearing from Pantera Performance Center-yours for a measly $25.
>
> This is one of the few Panteras I've seen lately that boasts the original
> window switches. Although they still nominally work, their action is quite
> poor; that is, there is no definite 'click' as they are moved from
> neutral to the
> up, or down positions. Don't be surprised if one or both of them stops
> working before too long.
>
> Speaking of nominally functional yet highly dubious switches, the headlight
> switch was positively frightening for me to use. I have felt several
> headlight switches that were completely broken and non-functional,
> and they felt just
> like this one. The headlights continue to work normally, against all odds,
> but it takes a ginger touch to the switch, and I fear it is nanoseconds from
> shattering completely (internally). Thus I would replace it at the earliest
> possibility, before it breaks entirely.
>
> The stock leather shift knob has been replaced with an oversize naugahyde
> Hall knob. Hall also provided the (excellent) floormats; I forgot
> to lift them
> to examine the state of the carpets underneath.
>
> As a 1974-ish car, it is equipped with the highly desirable later-style
> seatbelts. Instead of the infernal arrangement of the earlier
> cars, with their
> fixed, separate shoulder belt, this car has dual inertia reels on each side,
> with both the lap belts and shoulder belts so-equipped. However,
> the sheetmetal
> covers, which are supposed to hide the inertia reels behind the seats, are
> both missing, which is a bit ugly. Replacements can be found, or made.
>
> The later cars had cheap, plastic control levers for the heater controls, and
> the bottom one (which controls the heater temperature) is broken off. The
> heater valve is reportedly frozen solid, which would explain the lever being
> broken by an overly aggressive former owner. (The metal tubes
> which feed the
> heater are extensively rusted to the point of oblivion, and thus the
> heater is
> not connected at all; those tubes would have to be cut out and replaced in
> order for heater function to be restored, a non-trivial job).
>
> The A/C system nominally works (electrically anyway), but doesn't blow cold
> air. As it is totally original, I would advise throwing the original
> compressor and hoses away and starting over with new components.
>
> The horn relay clicks enthusiastically but the horns themselves don't work;
> perhaps down to corrosion on the connections, or ???
>
> The car is equipped with a period-correct radio with 8-track, which still
> works. Hit the garage sales and find some Grand Funk Railroad
> 8-track tapes and
> you're in business! (Or, buy a new stereo).
>
> Original later-style dashboards are known to crack after exposure to
> sunlight, and evidently this car had such problems. It's fitted
> with a Hall Pantera
> dashboard cap, which is surprisingly excellent. Rather than merely covering
> the top of the dash, this thing is molded to perfectly cover the entire
> dashboard, and once in place it's virtually indistinguishable from
> the original
> dash. This one has an installation imperfection on the top, where
> it has lifted
> and bubbled a bit; I think it would probably be a simple matter to pull the
> dash away from the car, glue it and clamp it until the glue dried.
>
> The engine bay looks decidedly crustly and neglected. It just looks like
> the engine bay of any 30-year-old car that has never been detailed, with road
> grime, and traces of oil etc. A good thorough cleaning would do
> wonders for it
> though.
>
> The motor appears to be virtually stock, other than the fitment of an economy
> Holley carburetor to the stock cast iron intake (by means of an adapter).
> Because this raises the height a bit, the stock air cleaner assembly is in a
> box, and a simple chrome round air cleaner is in its place.
>
> The engine block is non-original, and one valve cover gasket appears new.
> Although the motor appears bone stock from the outside, the fact
> that the block
> has been replaced is evidence that possibly there was a performance upgrade
> internally somewhere along the way.
>
> The exhaust consists of Hall headers, and a home-made exhaust with Borla
> mufflers. The tailpipe routing wasn't well thought-out, and as a result the
> tailpipes touch the driveshafts when the suspension unloads. The
> mufflers are
> reasonably quiet, but not particularly attractive. When the car is
> raised (or
> gets light going over a bump), the right driveshaft acts upon the exhaust and
> moves the muffler over to the left until it crashes into the side of the
> opening in the rear valance. Some serious work is called for here;
> if it were
> mine, I'd toss the mufflers over the hedge and replace them with something
> better-suited to the car. (The original stock mufflers are
> present, but are in
> rather sad shape internally and externally).
>
> The decklid struts are original and work so-so; they do hold the decklid open
> most (but not all) of the time. Oh, and for numbers geeks, the ZF is
> stamped with serial number #9739.
>
> The cooling system has been completely overhauled within the past year. A
> beautiful, stock-replacement brass radiator from Hall Pantera
> resides up front,
> fed by brand new hoses and beautiful stainless steel pipes. A new stainless
> pressure tank is fitted, but oddly the overflow tank is missing, and the
> bracket for it is hanging, badly bent, from its original mount.
> Where did it go,
> I wonder???
>
> Both radiator fans are the stock originals, and although I only saw one
> functioning, reportedly they both work (that is, they both spin when
> fed 12v power
> and ground, although I don't know if the system actually functions properly).
>
> All of the rest of the car-brakes, suspension, etc. etc. is stock and
> original. I jacked up the rear end and felt for blown-out axles
> and was surprised
> and pleased to find that they are absolutely perfect. I suspect the former
> owner rebuilt the hub carriers with new axles etc., as it's rare to
> find a car
> with this many miles that is so utterly perfect in this regard.
>
> The steering rack is blown out, as is to be expected of any Pantera with more
> than about 50K miles on the clock. Thus it needs to be overhauled (and it
> would make sense to repair the column and the bad turn signal switch at the
> same time).
>
> Right then, time for a drive. The seller warned that the car was rather
> cold-blooded since it has no choke, but I found it quite willing to
> start, and it
> settled down to a decent idle rather quickly. No complaints there.
>
> The clutch action is remarkably light. I don't know what kind of clutch is
> in the car, but if I had to guess I'd say it's a Centerforce.
> Certainly it's
> a delight to use. Not so the shifter, which although quite functional,
> feels very stiff and muddy, rather as though the shift lever is
> sticking out of a
> bucket of rapidly drying cement. There is nothing required here
> except for a
> thorough disassembly and lubrication of the entire system, perhaps including
> the replacement of the original trunnion bearing (whose grease has
> undoubtedly
> turned to stone by now).
>
> When first underway, the car drove just fine, with the steering wheel cocked
> slightly to the left (perhaps a legacy of the blown-out steering
> rack which is
> allowing unwanted toe-out on the right side). The suspension is supple,
> with no real indication of any problems. Given that the hub carriers have
> apparently been overhauled, it stands to reason that the lower
> shafts are probably
> freely moving and not seized up, although the only way to tell for sure is to
> try to remove them to grease them.
>
> A rotational wocka-wocka sound could be heard coming from the rear; initially
> I thought that it might be the driveshaft rubbing on the exhaust, but after
> thinking about it some, I dismissed that as not the likely cause,
> because with
> two people in the car, the suspension is compressed slightly and there is
> adequate clearance between the driveshaft and pipe. So, is it a
> bum U-joint?
> Probably. I'd definitely suggest removing and inspecting the
> driveshafts and
> overhauling them.
>
> Turning off the owner's little, bumpy road onto a slightly less little, less
> bumpy road revealed a surprise-this “stock” motor is really, really strong!
> It pulls cleanly with no untoward behavior, and has a whole bunch of torque.
> There's no smoke under either acceleration or deceleration, and when you
> roll your foot into the throttle, it just hauls. Quite a pleasant surprise,
> that.
>
> The shift action (other than the aforementioned muddy shifter) is fine as
> well, with no synchro grinding etc. There's no way to tell if the
> gearbox has
> ever been looked at, or if it has the ring and pinion safety-wired,
> but it sure
> works great.
>
> The brakes are a bit of a letdown. They appear to be working fine from a
> hydraulic perspective-they just don't stop the car very well. This is a
> typical situation with stock brake pads fitted. Simply fitting
> modern Porterfield
> (or similar) pads would probably greatly improve matters.
>
> We drove the car for a few miles to one of his friend's workshops, where I
> was able to put the car up on a lift and examine it from beneath.
>
> The person he bought the car from said that since his purchase in 1979 it had
> never seen a drop of rain, and judging from what I could see, I believe it.
> Simply put, the chassis is absolutely rock-solid. There were no additional
> drain holes in the chassis, which I normally find worrisome, but
> attacking the
> tubes in the inner wheelhouses with a hammer and screwdriver revealed nothing
> but super-solid steel. The front valance is all bashed up from encounters
> with curbs etc., but there's no evidence of rust there either, and
> the radiator
> support is rock-solid too. So based upon that, I'm fairly confident that
> this is about as rust-free a Pantera as you're going to find.
>
> That radiator support, by the way, has a rather easy job these days. When
> the Hall radiator was installed, whoever did the work failed to note
> that there
> are rubber grommets which engage the mounting feet on the radiator support,
> and they, well, support the radiator. As it is, the radiator is literally
> hanging by the side mounts at the top, and the bottom of the
> radiator is a good
> quarter inch above the mounting feet! This is not a recipe for long-term
> radiator health; in fact I would view this as an almost emergency
> repair. I would
> not drive this car any great distance before fixing it (the seller indicated
> that now that he knows about the fault, he might fix it himself in the next
> week or two).
>
> There is evidence of oil leakage from the engine, as the bottom of the oil
> pan etc. are covered in the stuff. But other than that, there were no other
> faults evident from under the car.
>
> Upon returning to his house, we let the car sit and idle for awhile in an
> effort to see the second radiator fan come on; it never did. However, the
> cooling system appears to be so efficient that it may be that it
> simply wasn't
> reaching the threshold to actuate the thermoswitch, as with only one one fan
> operating, the car resolutely refused to get any hotter than 200
> degrees on the
> gauge (which reportedly reads about 10 degrees high, verified by a laser temp
> gun).
>
> Oh, and the oil pressure seemed just a bit low to me; not dangerously so, but
> at cruise it was only indicating about 40 psi, with maybe 25-30 psi at idle.
> Is this accurate? Perhaps, perhaps not? I would verify with a mechanical
> gauge, and then either replace the sender or check for unwanted resistance in
> the electrical lines, if necessary.
>
> Here's an overview of what I think of this car:
>
> Strengths:
>
> Rock-solid chassis with no significant rust, and possibly no rust at all?
> Straight body with no real work needed (other than the front valance)
> Fantastically strong engine (at least by stock engine standards)
> Very good interior
> Easy-to-use seat belts (sadly missing inertia reel covers)
> Rear axles in terrific shape
> Old tires in surprisingly good condition
> Great cooling system (perhaps could be improved by the fitment of better
> fans)
> Surprisingly comfortable stock seats (modified to make them comfortable)
> Smooth-shifting gearbox
> Light, yet durable clutch
>
> Weaknesses:
>
> Poor paint condition-this car is just dying for a proper paint job
> Front bumper in sad shape
> Steering rack and column need attention
> Turn signal, headlight and window switches should be replaced
> Heater system will need extensive work
> A/C system needs to be replaced
> Brakes are marginal; could be fixed simply and cheaply with better pads?
> Shifter needs lubrication
> Driveshafts probably need overhaul
> Exhaust system could use a good re-think
>
> Basically, this car is just about the perfect entry-level Pantera. Although
> it has many needs (or at least wants), there is really nothing preventing a
> new owner from just jumping in and driving it as-is. This would be
> a perfect
> car for a potential owner on a budget, somebody who wants to dip his toe
> slowly into the world of Pantera ownership, and enjoy the car
> immediately, then fix
> things as time and budget allow.
>
> This would also be a perfect platform for somebody looking for a starting
> point for a ground-up restoration, a 'canvas' if you will, for such
> a project.
> Because it is apparently devoid of any rust, the only thing that
> would need to
> be done would be to dismantle it, strip it, paint it, then screw it back
> together with whatever glitzy parts are desired. It doesn't need to be
> 'repaired' by cutting away rusty metal and fabricating new pieces of
> chassis or body
> panels, etc.
>
> If I were to buy it, this is what I would do immediately before driving it:
>
> 1) Fix the radiator supports
> 2) Fix or replace the tailipes
> 3) Find and fix the wocka-wocka noise (probably driveshafts)
> 4) Replace the headlight switch (incorporating relays at the same time)
>
> Once that was done, I would at the earliest opportunity continue with:
>
> 5) Send the turn signal switch to Bill Taylor for his expert repairs
> 6) Repair the steering rack and steering column
> 7) Improve the brakes (new pads at a minimum, perhaps with new lines, or a
> caliper overhaul?)
> 8) Lubricate the shifter and perhaps replace the trunnion bearing
> 9) Replace the radiator fans (rewiring the system at the same time to ease
> strain on the stock wiring harness)
> 10) Install overflow bottle for cooling system
>
> At that point, I would feel that I had a car that I could drive just about
> anywhere, with the caveat that I would be hot if it was hot outside,
> and cold if
> it was cold outside!
>
> Then, as time and funds allowed, I would tackle some of the larger projects,
> including:
>
> 11) Repairing heater system
> 12) Replacing old A/C components and getting that system up to speed
>
> And finally, when I just couldn't stand looking at it anymore, and I had
> about $15K piled up in the bank, I would have the car totally stripped and
> repainted, replacing or repairing other things like the bumpers,
> side marker light
> housings etc.
>
> Although this car will undoubtedly consume a fair amount of cash (with the
> paint job being particular expensive), the fact that it is so solid
> makes it a
> very desirable proposition. I would view this car as being worth at least
> $32K to $35K as it sits now.
>
> So there you have it. Chris can be reached at home (530) 676-1988 or cell
> (916) 601-0404; his e-mail is chris.katz at dynamic-imaging.org
>
> A collage of photos of the car can be found here:
>
> http://members.aol.com/mikeldrew/ChrisKatzPantera.jpg
>
> Feel free to contact me at MikeLDrew at aol.com if you have any questions.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>
>
>
> **************
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>
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> 48)
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