[DeTomaso] California driver Pantera for sale--full review

Douglas Kelm dakelm at qwest.net
Mon Feb 11 01:09:15 EST 2008


Excellent write up Mike, except for one, very important thing: I think your
price estimate is WILDLY optimistic. My car, with which you are intimately
familiar, recently sold for SIGNIFICANTLY less than the $45K I was asking
and this car could come nowhere close to it for the (less than) $10,000
difference in price! It is not even remotely a fair comparison! I don't say
this out of sour grapes or any seller's remorse. It is simply a fact that
most Pantera owners value their cars far above the real world market price.
Without seeing this car, but relying on your highly accurate and complete
description, this is at best a high 20s car. Time will tell if I am wrong.
The subprime meltdown and concurrent economic recession/depression is going
to severely impact the value of all of our toys. So for buyers out there: Be
patient, there will be bargains to be had. For the rest of you: May you not
fall on hard times that will force you to liquidate your prize possessions
(not why I sold my car).

Doug Kelm
ex #2886, Yellow 1972 Pre-L


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:13 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] California driver Pantera for sale--full review


> As many of you know, I periodically examine Panteras for sale on behalf of
> interested buyers, or sometimes just to try to get information out to the
public
> at large.   A few months ago a fellow up in Washington approached me and
> asked me to examine a Pantera that was advertised for sale on Craigslist,
in the
> Sacramento (CA) area.   Work prevented me from getting a chance to see it
until
> just yesterday, and in the meantime, that potential buyer backed away from
> the idea; apparently his financial footing has become a bit shaky in light
of
> recent stock market developments etc.
>
> But I was intrigued enough about the car to want to see it anyway.
>
> The car in question is a 1973 Pantera L, THPNNG06153, with a BSN of 51867.
> The seller is named Chris Katz, and he has only owned the car for about
two
> years.   He is the third owner; the person he bought it from lived in the
> suburbs of San Francisco and had owned the car since 1979.
>
> Broadly, the car can be characterized as a somewhat scruffy looking but
> extremely structurally sound driver.
>
> The previous owner was quite proud of the fact that he had painted the car
> himself in his garage.   It was his first paint job, and this is obvious
the
> moment you look at it closely.   Attention to detail is sorely lacking,
there is
> overspray everywhere, and several panels (most notably the front hood)
show
> evidence of improper preparation.   Having said that, the paint looks good
if
> you look at it from 20 feet away.   Well, if you squint hard anyway….
>
> But it's not so terrible that you would be embarrassed to be seen driving
it
> down the road.   And underneath the paint, other than a minor door ding
here
> and there, and one notable scratch on the left side (where apparently a
garden
> tool was dragged on the car while it was stored in a tight garage), the
body
> itself appears to be quite straight and true.   So I suspect that only
minimal
> bodywork would be necessary when the car is painted properly.
>
> The car has its original wheels (you would be surprised at how many
Panteras
> are wearing mis-matched wheels, as one or more wheels are damaged sometime
> along the way and replaced with similar, but not identical Campy wheels).
They
> are fitted with very old, but seemingly excellent tires, Goodyear NCT
> 265/60-15 rear (a perfect tire size for this car, wish they were still
made), and
> different Goodyear 205/60-15 fronts.
>
> There is a single Ford mirror on the driver's door and no passenger side
> mirror.
>
> As this is a later 1973 car, it is built to the 1974 specification and
thus
> has wipers which park on the right hand side, and are rather intrusive
when
> viewed from behind the wheel.   Thank the DOT for that one!
>
> The reflector housings are suffering a bit; not only is the chrome finish
> greatly tarnished, but they are also extensively tagged with red
overspray.   I
> don't know if it would be practical to clean them up or not.
>
> The original front bumper is still in place, and it looks a bit dubious as
> well.   The stock front bumper is steel, covered with a thick layer of
rubber.
> Whatever the former owner did in an attempt to refurbish it, didn't work,
so
> it looks pretty rough.   The rear bumper is in much better condition.
>
> Oddly, both front splash shields (which protect the headlights etc. from
> water spray and rock debris thrown up by the spinning front tires) are
missing;
> replacing them is a matter of a few minutes with a pair of scissors and
> cardboard to make templates, then tin snips and sheetmetal.   A few coats
of spray
> paint, drill a few holes for sheetmetal screws, line them with some rubber
> weatherstripping and you're done.
>
> The interior is in very good condition considering that the car shows
78,4xx
> miles on the odometer.   The brake pedal pad is missing, only because the
> owner finds that he keeps kicking it off accidentally, but he still has
it.
>
> The stock seats have been sculpted by an upholstery shop to lower them in
the
> center, while leaving a pronounced bolster in the front.   Although stock
> Pantera seats are typically rather horrid affairs, these are surprisingly
> comfortable-easily among the best stock Pantera seats I have ever seen (or
rather,
> felt).   The turn signal switch is broken in the typical fashion, in that
you
> have to hold it up manually to signal a right turn (it works normally in
the LH
> direction).
>
> As the car has been fitted with a LeCarra wheel, it suffers the same fate
as
> virtually every other Pantera with one of these wheels-the hub was
> over-tightened, which shattered the nylon bearing at the bottom of the
steering column
> tube.   The spring behind the hub then pushes the wheel/hub/shaft assembly
> upwards until the U-joint at the bottom of the shaft strikes the tube.
The result
> is a pronounced in-and-out 'boing' action to the steering wheel, and
> noticeable drag from the U-joint dragging on the end of the tube.
Fortunately the
> fix is simple-just replace the remnants of the broken nylon bearing with a
new
> oillite bearing from Pantera Performance Center-yours for a measly $25.
>
> This is one of the few Panteras I've seen lately that boasts the original
> window switches.   Although they still nominally work, their action is
quite
> poor; that is, there is no definite 'click' as they are moved from neutral
to the
> up, or down positions.   Don't be surprised if one or both of them stops
> working before too long.
>
> Speaking of nominally functional yet highly dubious switches, the
headlight
> switch was positively frightening for me to use.   I have felt several
> headlight switches that were completely broken and non-functional, and
they felt just
> like this one.   The headlights continue to work normally, against all
odds,
> but it takes a ginger touch to the switch, and I fear it is nanoseconds
from
> shattering completely (internally).   Thus I would replace it at the
earliest
> possibility, before it breaks entirely.
>
> The stock leather shift knob has been replaced with an oversize naugahyde
> Hall knob.   Hall also provided the (excellent) floormats; I forgot to
lift them
> to examine the state of the carpets underneath.
>
> As a 1974-ish car, it is equipped with the highly desirable later-style
> seatbelts.   Instead of the infernal arrangement of the earlier cars, with
their
> fixed, separate shoulder belt, this car has dual inertia reels on each
side,
> with both the lap belts and shoulder belts so-equipped.   However, the
sheetmetal
> covers, which are supposed to hide the inertia reels behind the seats, are
> both missing, which is a bit ugly.   Replacements can be found, or made.
>
> The later cars had cheap, plastic control levers for the heater controls,
and
> the bottom one (which controls the heater temperature) is broken off.
The
> heater valve is reportedly frozen solid, which would explain the lever
being
> broken by an overly aggressive former owner.   (The metal tubes which feed
the
> heater are extensively rusted to the point of oblivion, and thus the
heater is
> not connected at all; those tubes would have to be cut out and replaced in
> order for heater function to be restored, a non-trivial job).
>
> The A/C system nominally works (electrically anyway), but doesn't blow
cold
> air.   As it is totally original, I would advise throwing the original
> compressor and hoses away and starting over with new components.
>
> The horn relay clicks enthusiastically but the horns themselves don't
work;
> perhaps down to corrosion on the connections, or ???
>
> The car is equipped with a period-correct radio with 8-track, which still
> works.   Hit the garage sales and find some Grand Funk Railroad 8-track
tapes and
> you're in business!   (Or, buy a new stereo).
>
> Original later-style dashboards are known to crack after exposure to
> sunlight, and evidently this car had such problems.   It's fitted with a
Hall Pantera
> dashboard cap, which is surprisingly excellent.   Rather than merely
covering
> the top of the dash, this thing is molded to perfectly cover the entire
> dashboard, and once in place it's virtually indistinguishable from the
original
> dash.   This one has an installation imperfection on the top, where it has
lifted
> and bubbled a bit; I think it would probably be a simple matter to pull
the
> dash away from the car, glue it and clamp it until the glue dried.
>
> The engine bay looks decidedly crustly and neglected.   It just looks like
> the engine bay of any 30-year-old car that has never been detailed, with
road
> grime, and traces of oil etc.   A good thorough cleaning would do wonders
for it
> though.
>
> The motor appears to be virtually stock, other than the fitment of an
economy
> Holley carburetor to the stock cast iron intake (by means of an adapter).
> Because this raises the height a bit, the stock air cleaner assembly is in
a
> box, and a simple chrome round air cleaner is in its place.
>
> The engine block is non-original, and one valve cover gasket appears new.
> Although the motor appears bone stock from the outside, the fact that the
block
> has been replaced is evidence that possibly there was a performance
upgrade
> internally somewhere along the way.
>
> The exhaust consists of Hall headers, and a home-made exhaust with Borla
> mufflers.   The tailpipe routing wasn't well thought-out, and as a result
the
> tailpipes touch the driveshafts when the suspension unloads.   The
mufflers are
> reasonably quiet, but not particularly attractive.  When the car is raised
(or
> gets light going over a bump), the right driveshaft acts upon the exhaust
and
> moves the muffler over to the left until it crashes into the side of the
> opening in the rear valance.   Some serious work is called for here; if it
were
> mine, I'd toss the mufflers over the hedge and replace them with something
> better-suited to the car.   (The original stock mufflers are present, but
are in
> rather sad shape internally and externally).
>
> The decklid struts are original and work so-so; they do hold the decklid
open
> most (but not all) of the time.   Oh, and for numbers geeks, the ZF is
> stamped with serial number #9739.
>
> The cooling system has been completely overhauled within the past year.
A
> beautiful, stock-replacement brass radiator from Hall Pantera resides up
front,
> fed by brand new hoses and beautiful stainless steel pipes.   A new
stainless
> pressure tank is fitted, but oddly the overflow tank is missing, and the
> bracket for it is hanging, badly bent, from its original mount.   Where
did it go,
> I wonder???
>
> Both radiator fans are the stock originals, and although I only saw one
> functioning, reportedly they both work (that is, they both spin when fed
12v power
> and ground, although I don't know if the system actually functions
properly).
>
> All of the rest of the car-brakes, suspension, etc. etc. is stock and
> original.   I jacked up the rear end and felt for blown-out axles and was
surprised
> and pleased to find that they are absolutely perfect.   I suspect the
former
> owner rebuilt the hub carriers with new axles etc., as it's rare to find a
car
> with this many miles that is so   utterly perfect in this regard.
>
> The steering rack is blown out, as is to be expected of any Pantera with
more
> than about 50K miles on the clock.   Thus it needs to be overhauled (and
it
> would make sense to repair the column and the bad turn signal switch at
the
> same time).
>
> Right then, time for a drive.   The seller warned that the car was rather
> cold-blooded since it has no choke, but I found it quite willing to start,
and it
> settled down to a decent idle rather quickly.   No complaints there.
>
> The clutch action is remarkably light.   I don't know what kind of clutch
is
> in the car, but if I had to guess I'd say it's a Centerforce.   Certainly
it's
> a delight to use.   Not so the shifter, which although quite functional,
> feels very stiff and muddy, rather as though the shift lever is sticking
out of a
> bucket of rapidly drying cement.   There is nothing required here except
for a
> thorough disassembly and lubrication of the entire system, perhaps
including
> the replacement of the original trunnion bearing (whose grease has
undoubtedly
> turned to stone by now).
>
> When first underway, the car drove just fine, with the steering wheel
cocked
> slightly to the left (perhaps a legacy of the blown-out steering rack
which is
> allowing unwanted toe-out on the right side).   The suspension is supple,
> with no real indication of any problems.   Given that the hub carriers
have
> apparently been overhauled, it stands to reason that the lower shafts are
probably
> freely moving and not seized up, although the only way to tell for sure is
to
> try to remove them to grease them.
>
> A rotational wocka-wocka sound could be heard coming from the rear;
initially
> I thought that it might be the driveshaft rubbing on the exhaust, but
after
> thinking about it some, I dismissed that as not the likely cause, because
with
> two people in the car, the suspension is compressed slightly and there is
> adequate clearance between the driveshaft and pipe.   So, is it a bum
U-joint?
> Probably.   I'd definitely suggest removing and inspecting the driveshafts
and
> overhauling them.
>
> Turning off the owner's little, bumpy road onto a slightly less little,
less
> bumpy road revealed a surprise-this “stock” motor is really, really
strong!
> It pulls cleanly with no untoward behavior, and has a whole bunch of
torque.
>  There's no smoke under either acceleration or deceleration, and when you
> roll your foot into the throttle, it just hauls.   Quite a pleasant
surprise,
> that.
>
> The shift action (other than the aforementioned muddy shifter) is fine as
> well, with no synchro grinding etc.   There's no way to tell if the
gearbox has
> ever been looked at, or if it has the ring and pinion safety-wired, but it
sure
> works great.
>
> The brakes are a bit of a letdown.   They appear to be working fine from a
> hydraulic perspective-they just don't stop the car very well.   This is a
> typical situation with stock brake pads fitted.   Simply fitting modern
Porterfield
> (or similar) pads would probably greatly improve matters.
>
> We drove the car for a few miles to one of his friend's workshops, where I
> was able to put the car up on a lift and examine it from beneath.
>
> The person he bought the car from said that since his purchase in 1979 it
had
> never seen a drop of rain, and judging from what I could see, I believe
it.
> Simply put, the chassis is absolutely rock-solid.   There were no
additional
> drain holes in the chassis, which I normally find worrisome, but attacking
the
> tubes in the inner wheelhouses with a hammer and screwdriver revealed
nothing
> but super-solid steel.   The front valance is all bashed up from
encounters
> with curbs etc., but there's no evidence of rust there either, and the
radiator
> support is rock-solid too.   So based upon that, I'm fairly confident that
> this is about as rust-free a Pantera as you're going to find.
>
> That radiator support, by the way, has a rather easy job these days.
When
> the Hall radiator was installed, whoever did the work failed to note that
there
> are rubber grommets which engage the mounting feet on the radiator
support,
> and they, well, support the radiator.  As it is, the radiator is literally
> hanging by the side mounts at the top, and the bottom of the radiator is a
good
> quarter inch above the mounting feet!   This is not a recipe for long-term
> radiator health; in fact I would view this as an almost emergency repair.
I would
> not drive this car any great distance before fixing it (the seller
indicated
> that now that he knows about the fault, he might fix it himself in the
next
> week or two).
>
> There is evidence of oil leakage from the engine, as the bottom of the oil
> pan etc. are covered in the stuff.   But other than that, there were no
other
> faults evident from under the car.
>
> Upon returning to his house, we let the car sit and idle for awhile in an
> effort to see the second radiator fan come on; it never did.   However,
the
> cooling system appears to be so efficient that it may be that it simply
wasn't
> reaching the threshold to actuate the thermoswitch, as with only one one
fan
> operating, the car resolutely refused to get any hotter than 200 degrees
on the
> gauge (which reportedly reads about 10 degrees high, verified by a laser
temp
> gun).
>
> Oh, and the oil pressure seemed just a bit low to me; not dangerously so,
but
> at cruise it was only indicating about 40 psi, with maybe 25-30 psi at
idle.
>  Is this accurate?   Perhaps, perhaps not?   I would verify with a
mechanical
> gauge, and then either replace the sender or check for unwanted resistance
in
> the electrical lines, if necessary.
>
> Here's an overview of what I think of this car:
>
> Strengths:
>
> Rock-solid chassis with no significant rust, and possibly no rust at all?
> Straight body with no real work needed (other than the front valance)
> Fantastically strong engine (at least by stock engine standards)
> Very good interior
> Easy-to-use seat belts (sadly missing inertia reel covers)
> Rear axles in terrific shape
> Old tires in surprisingly good condition
> Great cooling system (perhaps could be improved by the fitment of better
> fans)
> Surprisingly comfortable stock seats (modified to make them comfortable)
> Smooth-shifting gearbox
> Light, yet durable clutch
>
> Weaknesses:
>
> Poor paint condition-this car is just dying for a proper paint job
> Front bumper in sad shape
> Steering rack and column need attention
> Turn signal, headlight and window switches should be replaced
> Heater system will need extensive work
> A/C system needs to be replaced
> Brakes are marginal; could be fixed simply and cheaply with better pads?
> Shifter needs lubrication
> Driveshafts probably need overhaul
> Exhaust system could use a good re-think
>
> Basically, this car is just about the perfect entry-level Pantera.
Although
> it has many needs (or at least wants), there is really nothing preventing
a
> new owner from just jumping in and driving it as-is.   This would be a
perfect
> car for a potential owner on a budget, somebody who wants to dip his toe
> slowly into the world of Pantera ownership, and enjoy the car immediately,
then fix
> things as time and budget allow.
>
> This would also be a perfect platform for somebody looking for a starting
> point for a ground-up restoration, a 'canvas' if you will, for such a
project.
> Because it is apparently devoid of any rust, the only thing that would
need to
> be done would be to dismantle it, strip it, paint it, then screw it back
> together with whatever glitzy parts are desired.   It doesn't need to be
> 'repaired' by cutting away rusty metal and fabricating new pieces of
chassis or body
> panels, etc.
>
> If I were to buy it, this is what I would do immediately before driving
it:
>
> 1)   Fix the radiator supports
> 2)   Fix or replace the tailipes
> 3)   Find and fix the wocka-wocka noise (probably driveshafts)
> 4)   Replace the headlight switch (incorporating relays at the same time)
>
> Once that was done, I would at the earliest opportunity continue with:
>
> 5)   Send the turn signal switch to Bill Taylor for his expert repairs
> 6)   Repair the steering rack and steering column
> 7)   Improve the brakes (new pads at a minimum, perhaps with new lines, or
a
> caliper overhaul?)
> 8)   Lubricate the shifter and perhaps replace the trunnion bearing
> 9)   Replace the radiator fans (rewiring the system at the same time to
ease
> strain on the stock wiring harness)
> 10)   Install overflow bottle for cooling system
>
> At that point, I would feel that I had a car that I could drive just about
> anywhere, with the caveat that I would be hot if it was hot outside, and
cold if
> it was cold outside!
>
> Then, as time and funds allowed, I would tackle some of the larger
projects,
> including:
>
> 11)   Repairing heater system
> 12)   Replacing old A/C components and getting that system up to speed
>
> And finally, when I just couldn't stand looking at it anymore, and I had
> about $15K piled up in the bank, I would have the car totally stripped and
> repainted, replacing or repairing other things like the bumpers, side
marker light
> housings etc.
>
> Although this car will undoubtedly consume a fair amount of cash (with the
> paint job being particular expensive), the fact that it is so solid makes
it a
> very desirable proposition.   I would view this car as being worth at
least
> $32K to $35K as it sits now.
>
> So there you have it.   Chris can be reached at home (530) 676-1988 or
cell
> (916) 601-0404; his e-mail is chris.katz at dynamic-imaging.org
>
> A collage of photos of the car can be found here:
>
> http://members.aol.com/mikeldrew/ChrisKatzPantera.jpg
>
> Feel free to contact me at MikeLDrew at aol.com if you have any questions.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
>
>
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp0030000
00025
> 48)
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