[DeTomaso] Pantera Stereo/Speaker install question

Christopher Kimball chrisvkimball at msn.com
Mon Dec 15 12:27:49 EST 2008


You're right--I meant to say volts, but it was early in the morning and I was trying to get to work at least close to on time (no way with ice on the road!)  
 
Clay: Don't go to Radio Shack and as for a 25 or 50 WATT capacitor, ask for a 25 or 50 VOLT capacitor, as Doug mentions.  Sorry about that--just a senior moment on my part.  Actually, if you go to Radio Shack you'll probably get the same, vacant stare no matter what you ask...
 
Doug, thanks for the correction.  I didn't want to confuse the issue of two 8's or two 2's (probably 2.2), but you're right about the series for the 8's or parallel for the 2's.  I actually prefer 2.2 because it crosses over at a higher frequency, but if he's using an electronic crossover, the flexibility he'll have should be fine with a 4 microfarad.
 
Sincerely,
 
Chris> From: doug at silicondesigns.com> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com; claywillmott at hotmail.com; detomaso at realbig.com> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pantera Stereo/Speaker install question> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:25:59 -0800> > One correction Chris. The non-polar capacitors you're speaking of aren't> rated in Watts, they're rated in Volts. The types typically used in speaker> crossovers are metallized polypropylene, polyester film and oil filled.> Polypropylene provides higher audio quality at higher cost vs polyester.> Oil filled provide high audio quality but they're bulky. For a low-cost,> low quality option, two 8 uF (MicroFarad) Aluminum Electrolytics can be> wired in series (minus to minus). This series combination provides 4 uF> equivalent capacitance.> > Doug Braun> > > -----Original Message-----> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Kimball> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 7:55 AM> To: claywillmott at hotmail.com; Pantera List Serve> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Stereo/Speaker install question> > > > NOW you're talking!> > Although I don't know if your head unit will have right and left front and> rear outputs, and utilize a fader to balance between the two, I'm almost> positive it will. These would be four RCA, low-level connectors coming from> the back of the unit. Leave the speaker wires unhooked and taped off.> > If that's the case, here are two options for you:> > Option #1:> > For best sound and most power: Plug the front outputs of the head unit into> the existing amp. Hook the tweeters to its outputs, but, and this is really> important: ON THE POSITIVE LEAD ON EACH TWEETER, PUT A 50-WATT. 4> MICROFARAD, NON-POLAR ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITOR IN SERIES (a 25-watt would> probably suffice, too). That sounds complicated, but you can go to Radio> Shack and buy a couple for about three bucks (assuming they have two in> stock and the salesperson has a clue, which most of them don't). If you> strike out, let me know--I may have a couple I can mail you. Basically, you> solder the end of the positive wire to one end of the capacitor and then> solder the other end of the capacitor to the positive terminal of the> tweeter. The negative wire hooks up as usual. Failure to do this will blow> up the tweeter, which is probably what happened to your old ones, resulting> in the static you mentioned.> > Next, hook the rear outputs from your head unit to the inputs of the new> amp. Hopefully, you'll be able to bridge your new amp to a two-channel> configuration, if not, you might want to go to option two, below. Anyway,> assuming you can bridge it, adjust the crossover to a low-pass> configuration, so the highs are eliminated. Most amps have an adjustable> crossover which you can fiddle with once everything's all hooked up. Just> adjust it until you like the sound; there's no chance of doing any harm to> the woofer. Hook your woofer wires to the amp's left and right channel> outputs (the ones used when bridged to a two-channel configuration) and your> ready to go, with maximum power and clarity (assuming both amps are working> correctly. I ordered one recently and so far have gotten two bad ones in a> row. I'm STILL waiting for a good one to arrive!)> > To avoid phase problems and the associated lack of bass or oddities in the> high-frequencies, it's important you use wire that has one side coded> somehow so you can connect the plus and minus of each speaker to the correct> plus or minus of the amps, and that the tweeters are also hooked up with the> positive and negatives the same, too. Usually if the speaker doesn't have a> plus and minus sign next to the corresponding terminal, the positive one> will have a red insulator or mark next to it. This phasing part of hooking> up speakers is true no matter if you use option one or option two I'm> describing.> > Option #2:> > Use the new, four channel amp and run the head unit's four outputs into the> amp's inputs, again taping off any speaker wires from the head unit. On the> amp's front channels, adjust the crossover to high-pass and hook the> tweeters up to those channels, but to be safe I would still use capacitors> on the tweeters (come to think of it, they may already have them attached,> although if you say you have a big crossover unit for each set of> woofer/tweeter, the caps could be located in that). You can adjust the> high-frequency cut-off adjustment on the amp for the tweeters the same way> you did for the woofers to get the best sound.> > Anyway, once your tweeters are good to go, hook up the amp's rear channels> just as described in #1.> > Then you're done!> > As long as you use the capacitors and amp crossovers as I've described,> there is no need to use the big, passive crossover unit you mentioned. In> fact, those things suck power from the system, so if you can use electronic> crossovers instead, it's always better.> > As far as tweeter location; if the tweeters are aimed upward, their present> location will probably work OK. What I did was use some tweeters that were> round and not very deep. I put them in the existing door holes that were> used for the manual window cranks. The little, round metal covers popped> out, I had to grind 14" or so off the plastic manual-crank receptacles, but> the tweeters are flush with the door panels, look great and, for sound> purposes, the location is very good, too.> > Feel free to call me if you have any more questions or need help as you're> hooking it all up. 253-232-2321.> > Sincerely,> > Chris> > > > > From: claywillmott at hotmail.com> To: chrisvkimball at msn.com; detomaso at realbig.com> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pantera Stereo/Speaker install question> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:20:12 -0500> > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the responses.> > > Q:When you say "front" and "rear" so you mean the system has a four> channel amp, and you use the fader in the stereo head unit to control> the back to front balance? If so, and if the amp has no electronic> crossovers in use, then the> tweeters must have capacitors in line to eliminate low frequencies. If> that is the case, then the woofers are probably getting full-range> frequencies, which is OK. That being the case, it wouldn't matter> which were front and which were rear.> > A:The amp is a four channel Panasonic and it is set on two channel. The> right and left front speakers exit the amp to the door woofers. The right> and left rear speakers as labeled on the amp go to the two tweeters mounted> by my knees. It previously has no cross overs, all speakers seem to have> full range. By this I mean the woofers had high frequency and the tweeters> seemed to attempt to deliver bass/static. The older amp does not have> crossovers internally. I have the new speakers and head unit installed> already the same way the previous owner had it. My newer Amp has not> arrived yet as I ordered it later trying to avoid the two box styled> crossovers. Thus I have full range through all my new four components.> Thus can I just wait on the new amp or will I need to get started installing> the two crossovers also.> > The specific components are Alpine iDA-X100 head unit with the ipod> features, Alpine SPX 17-REF component speakers (6.5 inch) and tweeters> that came with two large crossovers (One for right and one for left ).> The amp is a Alpine PDX 4 x 100 with built in crossover.> > > > I was told you need to use the large crossovers and mount in the door> but I would rather not put those in my door and shouldn't an amp with a> built in cross over work just as well? If it will sound just as good I> would like to Not use the two crossovers.> > > > Also, the last guy put the two tweeters mounted in the panel by the> fuse box on the right and the hood release on the left. These are> aimed at you knees roughly. Any place you can stick tweeters that is> relatively hidden and aimed more towards the head? Trim pieces around> the headliner?> > I hope that makes sense, this is the first time I have done amps, stereo etc> work.> > Clay> 1343> > > > From: chrisvkimball at msn.com> To: claywillmott at hotmail.com; detomaso at realbig.com> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pantera Stereo/Speaker install question> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:31:21 -0800> > > > > > > > > When you say "front" and "rear" so you mean the system has a four channel> amp, and you use the fader in the stereo head unit to control the back to> front balance? If so, and if the amp has no electronic crossovers in use,> then the tweeters must have capacitors in line to eliminate low frequencies.> If that is the case, then the woofers are probably getting full-range> frequencies, which is OK. That being the case, it wouldn't matter which> were front and which were rear.> > If, on the other hand, the amp has electronic crossovers built in, then you> should use the high pass channels for the tweeters and the low pass for the> woofers.> > If the amp has the same crossover options for both front and rear channels,> then all you have to do is switch the crossover frequencies from front to> back, change the wires for the woofers and tweeters the same, and that's> that.> > Of course, it would probably be easier just to switch the line inputs from> the head unit. Switch the front to back and visa-versa and that should do> the same thing.> > If you can give me more detail I can help you more effectively.> > Thanks!> > Chris> #3846> > > > > From: claywillmott at hotmail.com> > To: detomaso at realbig.com> > Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:50:50 -0500> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Pantera Stereo/Speaker install question> >> >> > I just put in a new stereo and speakers but kept my amp that came with the> car for now. The speakers are component as were the previous (two 6.5 inch> woofers and two 1.25 inch tweeters).> > The last guy had the woofers as front speakers and the tweeters as rear.> The tweeters are in the front of the car and the woofers are in the door.> > Shouldn't the tweeters be front and the woofers be rear??> > Also, if my battery is a gel mat is it safe to mount the cross overs> behind the battery?> >> >> > Thanks in advance.> >> > CW> >> > _________________________________________________________________> > Send e-mail anywhere. 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