[DeTomaso] Fw: Fw: allowing detroit to fail
Will Demelo
wdemelo at cogeco.ca
Thu Dec 11 06:00:02 EST 2008
The "job bank" definitely exists in the US. Someone else can confirm?
And yes, small contractors like myself get zero from the gov.
Will (out all day yesterday and made 2 hrs pay)
----- Original Message -----
From: Mad Dog Antenucci
To: Will Demelo ; detomaso at realbig.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw: allowing detroit to fail
Hey Will,
Woooot!!!
Like others I have not been a union employee for decades but far as I know there is no such thing as a "job Bank" for laid off employees in the U.S. be they union or non-union.
If you are an independent contractor or small businessman you don't get sheeeit from Uncle Sam . Forget Denmark I NOW want to move to Ontario Canada. ;-]>
Will Demelo <wdemelo at cogeco.ca> wrote:
Dawg,
The "job-bank" funds pay the employee when they are laid off. The amount
varies from state to state and from countries. Here in Ontario, the auto
employee is eligible for provincial unemployment funds and the "job bank"
tops this up to 70% of their regular wage. From what I understand, some
areas get 90%. I asked before, but nobody replied "where does the "job bank"
get the money?
I has a couple of friends that worked for the auto industry and they wanted
to be laid off. Who wouldn't with that kind of benefit?
The province of Ontario has given the auto industry hundreds of millions
over the last number of years ( I heard this just the other day on the
radio). I'm assuming that some of this money was for the Ontario "job bank"
auto fund? I can't be sure , though.
Will
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mad Dog Antenucci"
To: "Lynn Wall" ; ; "'shelbygt'"
;
Cc: ; ; ;
;
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] allowing detroit to fail
> Very well said Lynn. Agree with most of what you said. Good points about
> our Commander in Chief now and in the future. I also liked what you had to
> say about credit card debt and how very easy it is for kids today to get a
> credit card.
>
> I have one question for you though....... and that is "what" Jobs Bank are
> you referring to that pays laid off workers 95% of their salary for 2
> years?
>
> As you know Boeing engineers have been on strike for quite awhile...My
> brother just retired from Boeing but he confirmed they have NEVER got any
> job bank or anything else while on strike except some small token strike
> pay. This Jobs Bank also does not exist in construction, maritime,
> petroleum or engineering OR the trade unions....are you thinking of
> Germany and Italy?
>
> MD
>
> Lynn Wall wrote: I don't even care what the average
> worker makes. I care about the "Jobs
> Bank" that pays laid off workers 95% of their salary for 2 years (I
> believe). Or that fact that some assembly line stations are manned by
> three
> workers when the work only requires one. I have very little sympathy for
> the management and think they are pretty incompetent. They are now reapin
> the rewards of that incompetence. It's a little like when sports teams
> owners bitch and complain about how little money they make even though
> they
> continue to sign high salaries and get free (to them) stadiums. Who
> really
> believes the government will/can do it better? Apparently our elected
> officials still think that we have that much trust in them.
>
> Just like both political parties are complicit in the current economic
> situation, both management and labor are complicit in Detroit's demise.
> But
> who do you blame? The petulant child that asks for the sun, moon, stars
> or
> the parent that continues to give it to them?
>
> And for the record, I am against the bailout but hope they go into chapter
> 11 to SUCCESSFULLY reorganize. I hope one of the auto companies (probably
> Chrysler, since they are privately held and therefore are not subject to
> reporting requirements) fails. I don't believe that the products that
> Chrysler makes will suddenly go away since anything of value will be sold
> and continue to be manufactured. I also think that there are very few
> people in Washington (of either party) that know how to do the right
> thing.
> They are slowly desensitizing us to the term "billions" so they can get us
> used to the term "trillions" so bigger spending, bigger deficit and bigger
> programs can occur. Watch representative Pelosi next time and see the
> willingness and the rush to spend our money. She almost seems giddy at
> the
> prospect. Next shoe to drop??? Credit card companies,
> inflation/deflation
> (take your pick they are both horrible). Remember, you heard it here.
>
> Oh and by the way, President Bush is my president now and President Elect
> Obama will be my president in January. The extreme right wing and left
> wings cannot be trusted to do anything but further their extreme agendas.
> They are merely trying to use the current situation to further agendas
> that
> could never pass in normal times. Hold your ground folks and keep your
> powder dry. Better times are ahead we just have to wait it out.
>
> Now that I have flamed I feel better. Thanks. I will now sort all future
> messages to be Pantera related only. I know, I know, I'm a hypocrite.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Ken Green
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:20 AM
> To: shelbygt; michael at michaelshortt.com
> Cc: MikeLDrew at aol.com; Fresnofinches at aol.com; notstock at yahoo.com;
> detomaso at realbig.com; cuvee at sbcglobal.net
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] allowing detroit to fail
>
> No reasonable person wants Detroit to fail, but some of us think (maybe
> incorrectly) that UAW member are getting paid twice what other hard
> working,
> family supporting, Americans get p aid for the same or harder work, and
> that
> the economy cannot support raising everyone's pay to UAW rates. That's
> all
> folks,
>
> I'll be happy to read objective facts showing I'm wrong.
>
> Here are some links from both sides if anyone cares to read them. I
> assume each includes some truth flavored by the writer's agenda.
>
> http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php
>
> http://www.mrswing.com/articles/Middle_Class_UAW_How_About_Upper_Class.html
>
> http://www.parapundit.com/archives/004670.html
>
> http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/state-of-the-union/
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 12/10/08, michael at michaelshortt.com
> wrote:
>
> From: michael at michaelshortt.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] allowing detroit to fail
> To: "shelbygt"
> Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com, cuvee at sbcglobal.net, detom aso at realbig.com,
> Fresnofinches at aol.com, MikeLDrew at aol.com, notstock at yahoo.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 9:04 AM
>
>
>
> Obviously, a group as large and diverse as ours will never agree on this
> issue.
>
> We are share one thing in common, perhaps two things in common, but I
> won't
> go there because I'm sure there are rainbow stickers on a Pantera
> somewhere!
>
> Let's just stick to OUR cars, and given that the company failed in
> business
> and the founder is now dead, we can point in the mirror at what could
> happen
> to others in car land.
>
> This is getting old and nobody is going to have their minds changed,
> either
> Unions are the best thing since C Cups or they have helped destroy the
> industry, either way, you're going to be a sucker to get pulled into
> support
> or hate speech.
>> I have my opinion as as pointed out, all of us with working fecal exits
> seem
> to have an opinion, apparently, it's an included option. ( although I do
> know many people who seem to have the equipment and yet have no opinion,
> some in fact seem to be composed primarily of the equipment).
>
> The Big three will not be allowed to fail for any number of reasons,
> POLITICAL power and Money being the most important ones.
> We can agree that one should try to buy American products when the quality
> and costs are equal to an imported option. I do not think we will ever
> convince the consumer to purchase a shoddy product on the premise that it
> was made in America alone.
>
> Therein is the key, give us a choice of equals and patriotism might skew
> the
> balance in our direction, but until the designers and engineers get their
> head out of their asses and quit offering BS like an Aztec ( with a
> straight
> face no less ) and stop making ignorant decisions ( Replace the Dodge
> Magnum
> assemble line with the Challenger line ( Dodge sold 140,000 Magnums in
> 2007,
> they will NEVER sell 40,000 Challengers in any two years) Stop offering
> the
> same car in 4 different trim models under 3 different names ( Suburban,
> Yukon XL, Escalade XL, Yukon Denali and Silvered, Chevy Truck, GMC Truck,
> etc. Sky and Solstice, Buick models, Pontiac Models, Chevy Models, Ford
> and
> Lincoln models, and how many freaking Jeeps do you really need?
>
> Establish a wage for a job and freeze the wage for that function, if you
> want to make more, you study and learn and move up the chain, seniority
> alone shouldn't determine pay scales, it is not good economic practice.
> Let
> Attrition be the guide, as people progress, start t he younger ones down
> below and have them ( hate this term instant gratification Baby Boomers )
> WORK THEIR WAY UP!
>
> Put employers in jail who hire illegal aliens. PERIOD, SHUT DOWN THEIR
> COMPANY.
>
> Give jobs to Americans first and like the rest of the world, if you can't
> find an American at the function salary, then and only then offer a visa
> to
> an immigrant worker.
>
> Live within your means,
>
> Pay Cash.
>
> Just because you want the 56" Plasma this year doesn't mean you should go
> lay down some plastic to get it.
>
> Buy a house that you can afford that is no more than 30% of your take home
> pay.
>
> Save 10% of your income.
>
> Establish a rainy day fund that will provide, food, shelter and clothing
> for
> 6 months.
>
> Buy a car with cash, amazing how much nicer it drives.
> ;
> Learn to cook at home.
>
> Buy products from vendors who value your business and are NICE to you.
>
> Assholes should go out of business.
>
> Don't have more kids than you can afford, they cost 800K to raise.
> Buy some condoms for Pete's sake. get fixed.
>
> That's another thing, I have been watching Sally Struthers and the
> Children's Fund in Africa for 49 years,
> stop screwing and you want have any starving babies.
>
> as Sam Kenison said. "MOVE where the food is!
>
> Why are out of work lazy people always wearing wife beater shirts, unclean
> and sitting on the front porch, Get a freaking job or be on the street
> looking for one.
>
> Kill robbers on site.
>
> Hang Child Molesters at center court in the mall
>
> Castrate Rapists
>
> Looters should be dropped into the sea 15 miles out
>
>
> The speed limit should be unlimited for people with the ability to get a
> super license and prove their skills, we have one of the best highway
> systems in the world which is used for revenue enhancement, not safety.
>
> People who are DUI shouldn't be allowed to drive for a year on the first
> offense.
>
> Second offense for 5 years.
>
> Third offense, NEVER drive again.
>
> OK, that should be enough to skew this thread someplace else
>
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Michael in Savannah
>
> :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:26 AM, shelbygt wrote:
>
> The $150k number sounds like an exception rather than the rule. Maybe if
> they lived at work and never went home. Union bashers are known to
> exaggerate. I'm not Union, but not so naive as to not recognize that
> their
> sacrifices benefit us all. The reason Unions came about in the first
> place
> was because of exploitation of employees.
>
> Unions are for the benefit of us all. PERIOD.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Green"
> To: ; ; ;
> ;
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] allowing detroit to fail
>
>
>>I don't think any of us want Detroit to fail, we believe that they need to
>>enter Chapter 11 and reorganize. I have no problem with the government
>>guaranteeing loans after the reorganization. I also have contacted my 2
>>senators and congresswoman (all liberal Democrats) and specifically asked
>>if it is true that UAW members are making $150K, and if so, why are we
>>bailing them out. I have not received any answers, which tells me it is
>>true. Another exam ple of how a special interest (the UAW in the instance)
>>owns the Democratic Party.
>>
>> I bought a Buick Regal GS in 98, and only sold it after 180,000 great
>> miles because little things kept failing. I liked it so much, that I
>> bought another a couple years ago with 30,000 on it (it had been
>> discontinued by Buick) and hope to drive it for a few more years. It is
>> the best car I ever owned, and I think the best styled sedan I've ever
>> owned, even after 10 years. 0-60 in 6.6, and 30+ MPG at 70. It's a great
>> car. But of course, Buick dropped it and I think the replacement sucks.
>>
>> I have never bought a Japanese car, but appreciate the recognized fact
>> that they forced Detroit to quit making junk.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 12/10/08, j g wrote:
>>
>> From: j g
>> Subject : Re: [DeTomaso] allowing detroit to fail
>> To: cuvee at sbcglobal.net, detomaso at realbig.com, Fresnofinches at aol.com,
>> kenn_green at yahoo.com, MikeLDrew at aol.com
>> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 7:20 AM
>>
>> Nice to hear all the rants about border security, national security etc
>> from
>> all the extreme right wing , Then immediately behind that we hear how
>> Detroit
>> should be allowed to fail with a lot of emotional reasons about foreign
>> (junk)
>> being better than American iron. yada yada yada
>>
>> WEll wake up the industrial might that allow the good old USA to stay
>> secure
>> has come in many forms from Detroit, DEtroit stopped producing cars
>> during
>> ww2
>> and geared up for the war that allowed us to beat the MITSUBISHI
>> ,KAWASAKI<
>> SUZUKI< BMW< MERCED ES BENZ , PORSCHE produced enemy war machines .
>> Allison
>> produced aircraft , ship and tank motors and still does. Chrysler still
>> produces the M1 tank with allison turbine engines.
>> Allison produced the first commercial jet engines for American jet
>> aircraft,
>> they still produce large portions of the ground equipment for aircraft
>> and
>> shipboard support.and turbine , diesel and gas support equipment, The
>> computers
>> used in everything from the titan II launch vehicles to the F-16 were and
>> are
>> all designed and produced by DELCO (GM)
>> The inertial navigation platforms on all 747 aircraft , and required for
>> all
>> trans oceanic flight are all carousel 4 and 5 systems designed and
>> produced by
>> GM , All the military vehicles are produced by Detroit in some fashion
>> from
> > engines, chassis parts to full vehicles. Including The chrysler tanks and
>> heavy
>> vehicles.
>>
>> So BY screwing detroit in either not bailing them out or by buying and
>> supporting our old enemies companies equipment you are screwing the
>> national
>> security and strength of our nation . You are being essentially
>> traitors to your own country at the expense of your own greed .
>>
>> YES this is harsh but think about it.
>>
>> jg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> --
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
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> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
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