[DeTomaso] allowing detroit to fail

Ken Green kenn_green at yahoo.com
Wed Dec 10 12:19:46 EST 2008


No reasonable person wants Detroit to fail, but some of us think (maybe incorrectly) that UAW member are getting paid twice what other hard working, family supporting, Americans get paid for the same or harder work, and that the economy cannot support raising everyone's pay to UAW rates.  That's all folks, 
 
I'll be happy to read objective facts showing I'm wrong.
 
Here are some links from both sides if anyone cares to read them.  I assume each includes some truth flavored by the writer's agenda.
 
http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php
 
http://www.mrswing.com/articles/Middle_Class_UAW_How_About_Upper_Class.html
 
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/004670.html
 
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/state-of-the-union/

Ken
 
 

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, michael at michaelshortt.com <michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:

From: michael at michaelshortt.com <michael at michaelshortt.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] allowing detroit to fail
To: "shelbygt" <shelbygt at cfu.net>
Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com, cuvee at sbcglobal.net, detomaso at realbig.com, Fresnofinches at aol.com, MikeLDrew at aol.com, notstock at yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 9:04 AM



Obviously, a group as large and diverse as ours will never agree on this issue.
 
We are share one thing in common, perhaps two things in common, but I won't go there because I'm sure there are rainbow stickers on a Pantera somewhere!
 
Let's just stick to OUR cars, and given that the company failed in business and the founder is now dead, we can point in the mirror at what could happen to others in car land.
 
This is getting old and nobody is going to have their minds changed, either Unions are the best thing since C Cups or they have helped destroy the industry, either way, you're going to be a sucker to get pulled into support or hate speech.
 
I have my opinion as as pointed out, all of us with working fecal exits seem to have an opinion, apparently, it's an included option. ( although I do know many people who seem to have the equipment and yet have no opinion, some in fact seem to be composed primarily of the equipment).
 
The Big three will not be allowed to fail for any number of reasons, POLITICAL power and Money being the most important ones.
We can agree that one should try to buy American products when the quality and costs are equal to an imported option.  I do not think we will ever convince the consumer to purchase a shoddy product on the premise that it was made in America alone.
 
Therein is the key, give us a choice of equals and patriotism might skew the balance in our direction, but until the designers and engineers get their head out of their asses and quit offering BS like an Aztec ( with a straight face no less ) and stop making ignorant decisions ( Replace the Dodge Magnum assemble line with the Challenger line ( Dodge sold 140,000 Magnums in 2007, they will NEVER sell 40,000 Challengers in any two years)  Stop offering the same car in 4 different trim models under 3 different names ( Suburban, Yukon XL, Escalade XL,  Yukon Denali and Silvered, Chevy Truck, GMC Truck, etc.  Sky and Solstice, Buick models, Pontiac Models, Chevy Models, Ford and Lincoln models, and how many freaking Jeeps do you really need?
 
Establish a wage for a job and freeze the wage for that function, if you want to make more, you study and learn and move up the chain, seniority alone shouldn't determine pay scales, it is not good economic practice.  Let Attrition be the guide, as people progress, start the younger ones down below and have them ( hate this term instant gratification Baby Boomers ) WORK THEIR WAY UP!
 
Put employers in jail who hire illegal aliens. PERIOD, SHUT DOWN THEIR COMPANY.
 
Give jobs to Americans first and like the rest of the world, if you can't find an American at the function salary, then and only then offer a visa to an immigrant worker.
 
Live within your means,
 
Pay Cash.
 
Just because you want the 56" Plasma this year doesn't mean you should go lay down some plastic to get it.
 
Buy a house that you can afford that is no more than 30% of your take home pay.
 
Save 10% of your income.
 
Establish a rainy day fund that will provide, food, shelter and clothing for 6 months.
 
Buy a car with cash, amazing how much nicer it drives.
 
Learn to cook at home.
 
Buy products from vendors who value your business and are NICE to you.
 
Assholes should go out of business.
 
Don't have more kids than you can afford, they cost 800K to raise.
Buy some condoms for Pete's sake.  get fixed.
 
That's another thing, I have been watching Sally Struthers and the Children's Fund in Africa for 49 years,
stop screwing and you want have any starving babies.
 
as Sam Kenison said. "MOVE where the food is!
 
Why are out of work lazy people always wearing wife beater shirts, unclean and sitting on the front porch, Get a freaking job or be on the street looking for one.
 
Kill robbers on site.
 
Hang Child Molesters at center court in the mall
 
Castrate Rapists
 
Looters should be dropped into the sea 15 miles out
 
 
The speed limit should be unlimited for people with the ability to get a super license and prove their skills, we have one of the best highway systems in the world which is used for revenue enhancement, not safety.
 
People who are DUI shouldn't be allowed to drive for a year on the first offense.
 
Second offense for 5 years.
 
Third offense, NEVER drive again.
 
OK, that should be enough to skew this thread someplace else
 
 
Merry Christmas,
 
Michael in Savannah
 
:-)
 
 
 
 



On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:26 AM, shelbygt <shelbygt at cfu.net> wrote:

The $150k number sounds like an exception rather than the rule.  Maybe if
they lived at work and never went home.  Union bashers are known to
exaggerate.  I'm not Union, but not so naive as to not recognize that their
sacrifices benefit us all.  The reason Unions came about in the first place
was because of exploitation of employees.

Unions are for the benefit of us all.  PERIOD.





----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
To: <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>; <detomaso at realbig.com>; <Fresnofinches at aol.com>;
<MikeLDrew at aol.com>; <notstock at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] allowing detroit to fail


>I don't think any of us want Detroit to fail, we believe that they need to
>enter Chapter 11 and reorganize. I have no problem with the government
>guaranteeing loans after the reorganization. I also have contacted my 2
>senators and congresswoman (all liberal Democrats) and specifically asked
>if it is true that UAW members are making $150K, and if so, why are we
>bailing them out. I have not received any answers, which tells me it is
>true. Another example of how a special interest (the UAW in the instance)
>owns the Democratic Party.
>
> I bought a Buick Regal GS in 98, and only sold it after 180,000 great
> miles because little things kept failing. I liked it so much, that I
> bought another a couple years ago with 30,000 on it (it had been
> discontinued by Buick) and hope to drive it for a few more years. It is
> the best car I ever owned, and I think the best styled sedan I've ever
> owned, even after 10 years. 0-60 in 6.6, and 30+ MPG at 70. It's a great
> car. But of course, Buick dropped it and I think the replacement sucks.
>
> I have never bought a Japanese car, but appreciate the recognized fact
> that they forced Detroit to quit making junk.
>
> Ken
>
>
> --- On Wed, 12/10/08, j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> From: j g <notstock at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] allowing detroit to fail
> To: cuvee at sbcglobal.net, detomaso at realbig.com, Fresnofinches at aol.com,
> kenn_green at yahoo.com, MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 7:20 AM
>
> Nice to hear all the rants about border security, national security etc
> from
> all the extreme  right wing , Then immediately  behind that we hear how
> Detroit
> should be allowed to fail with a lot of emotional reasons about foreign
> (junk)
> being better than American iron. yada yada yada
>
> WEll wake up the industrial might that allow the good old USA to stay
> secure
> has come in many forms from Detroit, DEtroit stopped producing cars during
> ww2
> and geared up for the war  that allowed us to beat the MITSUBISHI
> ,KAWASAKI<
> SUZUKI< BMW< MERCEDES BENZ , PORSCHE produced enemy war machines . Allison
> produced aircraft , ship and tank motors and still does. Chrysler  still
> produces the M1 tank with allison turbine engines.
> Allison produced the first commercial jet engines for American jet
> aircraft,
> they still produce large portions of the ground equipment for aircraft and
> shipboard support.and turbine , diesel and gas support equipment, The
> computers
> used in everything from the titan II launch vehicles to the F-16 were and
> are
> all designed and produced by DELCO (GM)
> The inertial navigation platforms on all 747 aircraft , and required for
> all
> trans oceanic flight are all carousel 4 and 5 systems designed and
> produced by
> GM ,  All the military vehicles are produced by Detroit in some fashion
> from
> engines, chassis parts to full vehicles. Including The chrysler tanks and
> heavy
> vehicles.
>
> So BY screwing detroit in either not bailing them out or by buying and
> supporting our old enemies companies equipment  you are screwing the
> national
> security and strength of our nation . You are being essentially
> traitors to your own country at the expense of your own greed .
>
> YES this is harsh but think about it.
>
> jg
>
>
>
>
>
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Michael L. Shortt
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