[DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
j g
notstock at yahoo.com
Tue Dec 9 09:47:11 EST 2008
when companies go out of their way to import cheap labor even skilled educated labor and do not attempt to employ USA citizen labor first . that is the ultimate greed . MOST big businesses are given huge incentives by USA taxpayers to locate and operate in their community , to HIRE and IMPORT to displace USA citizens with educations and experience in favor of whole groups of peoples from far away that can be exploited as immoral .
jg
--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> From: Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
> To: "MyCars" <MyCars at Comcast.net>, kenn_green at yahoo.com, "Peter Kovacs" <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>, "Steve Hawkins" <shawkins777 at comcast.net>, notstock at yahoo.com, "Pantera Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>, "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 10:56 PM
> (On the immigration bashing, I always thought this country
> prided itself
> on being "The Melting Pot of the World".)
>
> Your right...Come in to the USA...LEGALLY!!!...and your
> welcome.
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Peter Kovacs
> <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> From: Peter Kovacs <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US
> Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
> To: "MyCars" <MyCars at Comcast.net>,
> kenn_green at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Mad Dog Antenucci"
> <teampantera at yahoo.com>, "Steve Hawkins"
> <shawkins777 at comcast.net>, notstock at yahoo.com,
> "Pantera Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>,
> "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 8:14 PM
>
> All of the above...I mean below.
>
> Peter Kovacs
> Property Equity & Mortgage Mgmt
> 209 345-6708
> 209 523-4919 fx
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: MyCars <MyCars at Comcast.net>
> To: kenn_green at yahoo.com
> Cc: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>; Steve
> Hawkins
> <shawkins777 at comcast.net>; notstock at yahoo.com;
> Pantera Forum
> <detomaso at realbig.com>; Asa Jay Laughton
> <asajay at asajay.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 6:34:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US
> Auto Industry
> Bailout OPINION
>
> I am confused
>
> Is the problem because of:
> - corporate greed
> - consumer greed
> - union greed
> - foreigners working here
> - foreigners working elsewhere
> - banks not lending
> - banks lending too much
> - strong dollar
> - weak dollar
> - lack of confidence in the economy (as reflected in the
> stock market)
> - global trade (open markets / closed markets)
> - free trade
> ....
>
> On the immigration bashing, I always thought this country
> prided itself
> on being "The Melting Pot of the World".
>
> This is the land of opportunity, you must make of it what
> you will.
> Things are tough right now, they will turn around.
> Isolationism is not
> the answer to the current problems, it would only lead to
> stagnancy.
>
>
>
> Ken Green wrote:
> > When was the last time you saw a TV commercial that
> suggested saving to
> buy what you really needed? All we see are commercials
> telling us that if we
> just get a new widget we will be happy, and because we
> deserve to be happy, we
> should use credit to buy it.
> >
> > Just to be clear, the $70+ an hour pay rates I've
> read about were with
> benefits. I was not suggesting it was a salary. The
> non-UAW workers are
> suppose to be around $50 and hour with benefits.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Steve Hawkins
> <shawkins777 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > From: Steve Hawkins <shawkins777 at comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT, US Auto Industry
> Bailout OPINION
> > To: "'Mad Dog Antenucci'"
> <teampantera at yahoo.com>,
> notstock at yahoo.com, "'Pantera Forum'"
> <detomaso at realbig.com>, "'Asa Jay
> Laughton'"
> <asajay at asajay.com>, kenn_green at yahoo.com
> > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 4:31 PM
> >
> > I've failed to hear anyone mention the greed of
> the American
> consumer. They
> > also demand lower and lower prices and refuse to buy
> the higher priced
> > products. So what does that leave any company to do
> but try and lower
> cost.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:39 PM
> > To: notstock at yahoo.com; Pantera Forum; Asa Jay
> Laughton;
> > kenn_green at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT,US Auto Industry
> > Bailout OPINION
> >
> >
> > I have heard exactly the same thing from folks in the
> construction
> industry
> > and seen it first hand....
> >
> > I listened to the power point presentation about how
> LABOR costs drive
> > operating costs and how much money could be saved by
> either moving IT or
> > Engineering support services either overseas OR
> bringing the foreign
> > employees HERE on the hiring visas you mentioned.
> >
> > This is not so much about decreasing operating costs
> as it is about
> > increasing profit and further reducing U.S. jobs and
> GREED.
> >
> > I have listened to several of our fellow club and
> Pantera owners talk
> about
> > how they eventually just gave up trying to find a
> replacement job in IT
> > since they had been priced out of the market....
> >
> > Think I and others am making this up? Talk to Rod
> Kunishe in Huntington
> > Beach some time. He was one of the early IT executives
> in silicon valley
> who
> > moved out of Bay Area to relocate to SoCal.
> >
> > Yea, I know there are other labor, illegal
> immigration, tax and
> > mismanagement issues going on in this country but I
> think what JG and
> others
> > are saying.
> >
> > MD
> >
> >
> > j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote: This is more
> than Gut reaction , I
> have
> > particularly been present to discussions by government
> representatives
> that
> > have said ,to general managers and personel managers
> how to hire hib
> or
> > l1a jobs and how to skirt the law requiring a U.S.
> posting and review. The
> > worst i have ever heard said "is by hireing l1a
> or h1b visas you can
> at
> > any
> > time terminate the sponcership so the worker can be
> controlled to work the
> > hours and conditions that benefit the company and if
> they complain the
> > company just pulls the sponcership to eliminate a
> problematic
> worker." I
> > have seen a document by the defense logistics arm Of
> the Gao that
> > particularly tells defence contractors to hire irish
> and english engineers
> > over US born because they are easy to get clearences
> and since they do not
> > know the real economic situation in the US are willing
> to relocate at half
> > the US pay rate , speak english and become at the
> graces of the company
> so
> > do not complain about the harsh working conditions
> or wages that a US
> born
> > free agent would for fear of deportation , This
> allows defence
> contractors
> > to reduce their labor rate on government bids.
> >
> > Jg
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Ken Green wrote:
> >
> >
> >> From: Ken Green
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT, US Auto
> Industry
> >>
> > Bailout OPINION
> >
> >> To: "Pantera Forum" , "Asa Jay
> Laughton" ,
> >>
> > notstock at yahoo.com
> >
> >> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:23 AM
> >> I think most of us have the same gut reaction that
> you do,
> >> but the big problem I see was shown by the cars
> that US
> >> auto makers made before the Japanese raised the
> bar. I
> >> don't know how you protect American jobs and
> industry
> >> without corporations (run by the bean counters)
> settling
> >> into mediocrity. But it does seem that the
> global economy
> >> has not benefited the American worker much.
> >>
> >> Ken
> >>
> >> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, j g wrote:
> >>
> >> From: j g
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT, US
> >> Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
> >> To: "Pantera Forum" ,
> >> "Asa Jay Laughton"
> >> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 6:06 AM
> >>
> >> how about we cancel all h1b and L1a visas, all
> green cards
> >> , then force
> >> "made in the usa" content legislation
> for all
> >> industries just like
> >> europe, china, india, japan and all of asia do as
> well .
> >> i know that here in dallas 30 plus percent of
> texas instruments
> >> engineering jobs are l1a or h1b visas yet we have
> enough us born
> >> engineers to fill the same
> >> positions that are qualified out of work.
> >> to say restructure is jargon for "build
> overseas
> >> " and put americans
> >> out of work.
> >>
> >> How about full employement for americans first .
> >>
> >> that will put jobs back here in the usa and kepp
> our
> >> economy moving,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Asa Jay Laughton
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Asa Jay Laughton
> >>> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT,
> >>>
> >> US Auto Industry
> >> Bailout OPINION
> >>
> >>> To: "Pantera Forum"
> >>>
> >>> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:21 PM
> >>> This is POLITICAL, but NON- PARTISAN. (no
> stumping candidates, not
> >>> speeches, no jokes)
> >>> If this gets me banned... oh well, I've
> said my
> >>>
> >> peace.
> >>
> >>> This is -MY- opinion. If you AGREE, I would
> strongly encourage
> you
> >>> to WRITE your congressman (or woman)
> >>> This is about the AUTO BAILOUT being
> considered in the
> >>>
> >> U.S.
> >>
> >>> Congress
> >>> If you are NOT INTERESTED, DELETE NOW
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> ***************************************************************
> >>
> >>> The REAL way to Bailout the Auto industry:
> >>>
> >>> Two sections:
> >>> - Why Congress should NOT give any money to
> the
> >>>
> >> automakers
> >>
> >>> directly
> >>> - How the money -should- be put to use and why
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Why Congress SHOULD NOT give any money
> directly to the
> >>> automakers:
> >>> - This will only put money in -their-
> pockets
> >>> - It will NOT reduce inventories
> >>> - It will NOT make room for more
> manufacturing
> >>> - It will NOT benefit anyone down-line
> >>>
> >> (dealerships,
> >>
> >>> parts makers, etc.)
> >>> - It will NOT prevent layoffs
> >>> - It WILL ALLOW the Big Three to payoff
> the unions
> >>>
> >> even
> >>
> >>> if it can't
> >>> give out work.
> >>> - It WILL ALLOW high level corporate
> employees,
> >>> CEO's, etc. to
> >>> BAILOUT of the company with high dollar
> pensions,
> >>>
> >> bonuses
> >>
> >>> and severance
> >>> packages. (It happend with the banking
> bailout, what
> >>>
> >> makes
> >>
> >>> you think it
> >>> won't with the auto makers?)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - How the money -should- be put to use and
> why:
> >>> - GIVE THE MONEY TO THE TAXPAYERS
> >>> - A sight-draft type of check
> >>> - Can ONLY be cashed in at a Big
> Three auto
> >>>
> >> dealer
> >>
> >>> - May NOT be used to buy a foreign
> car (made
> >>>
> >> by
> >>
> >>> anyone other
> >>> than a big three company)
> >>> - May NOT be cashed at a bank
> >>> - Transferable (in case the
> taxpayer does not
> >>>
> >> or
> >>
> >>> can not drive)
> >>> - Auto makers and dealers may NOT
> manipulate
> >>>
> >> MSRP
> >>
> >>> - Who get's them?
> >>> - Impractical for every taxpayer
> >>> - 140 million taxpayers as of
> 2007 (IRS
> >>>
> >> data)
> >>
> >>> - $25 billion divided by 140
> million is
> >>>
> >> $178
> >>
> >>> per person.
> >>> - Eligible group must be narrowed:
> >>> - $25 billion divided by a
> $20,000
> >>>
> >> sight-draft
> >>
> >>> per person is
> >>> 1,250,000 recipients
> >>> - The number of recipients
> goes up if
> >>>
> >> Congress
> >>
> >>> approves more.
> >>> - Possible eligibility by
> income level?
> >>> - To what income
> bracket will
> >>>
> >> 1,250,000
> >>
> >>> checks be used up?
> >>> - Possible first come, first
> served
> >>> - Apply with U.S.
> Government
> >>> - Web site or
> phone line
> >>> - similar to the
> TV Converter
> >>>
> >> coupons
> >>
> >>> - Must be an eligible
> Taxpayer
> >>> - Must be registered to
> vote
> >>> - voters are the
> people who should
> >>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>> a say in this
> >>> - Must have valid
> drivers license
> >>> - Only ONE per eligible
> person or
> >>>
> >> family
> >>
> >>> (household)
> >>> - U.S. Government
> verifies eligibility
> >>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>> issues
> >>> sight-draft
> >>> - The dealer completes the sight-draft
> check with
> >>>
> >> a
> >>
> >>> valid VIN and
> >>> presents it for payment.
> >>> - The dealer pays the Big Three auto
> maker
> >>> - And thus, they get their bailout
> money
> >>> - Benefits the Tax payer
> >>> - They can get a new car increasing
> personal
> >>> equity, mobility, etc.
> >>> - Benefits the environment
> >>> - New cars are more efficient
> >>> - Many buyers will most likely get
> rid of
> >>>
> >> their
> >>
> >>> older car
> >>> - Benefits the dealership
> >>> - They sell the cars, stimulating
> local
> >>>
> >> economies
> >>
> >>> - Benefits the Big Three auto makers
> >>> - They get rid of inventories
> >>> - It makes room for more
> manufacturing
> >>> - Benefits the auto parts industry
> >>> - The Big Three will need more
> parts to build
> >>>
> >> more
> >>
> >>> cars
> >>> - People will need spares or
> replacements for
> >>>
> >> parts
> >>
> >>> that break
> >>> - Benefits local governments
> >>> - Sales taxes, license fees, etc.
> >>> - Keeps more people employed
> >>> - See the benefits listed above
> >>>
> >>> Think about it for a minute, it makes more
> sense.
> >>>
> >> Giving
> >>
> >>> the auto
> >>> makers the money doesn't stimulate local
> >>>
> >> economies. It
> >>
> >>> just lets them
> >>> continue with the status quo; supplying
> overpriced
> >>>
> >> benefits
> >>
> >>> and inflated
> >>> wages to union employees, building more cars
> in an
> >>>
> >> already
> >>
> >>> super-saturated market. In addition, not many
> people
> >>>
> >> are
> >>
> >>> buying new cars
> >>> right now, so if you give the auto makers the
> money,
> >>>
> >> it may
> >>
> >>> just put
> >>> more unsold inventory into the pipeline which
> in turn
> >>> increases the
> >>> entire problem they have in the first place.
> >>>
> >>> Who says giving the auto makers the money will
> change
> >>>
> >> their
> >>
> >>> strategy?
> >>> If I had been a CEO of a major auto maker, I
> would
> >>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>> been re-thinking
> >>> business strategy years ago, not living with
> razor
> >>>
> >> thin
> >>
> >>> profits, or even
> >>> losses. You don't run a successful
> business that
> >>>
> >> way.
> >>
> >>> I wasn't too
> >>> surprised when they showed up in Congress the
> first
> >>>
> >> time
> >>
> >>> with no plan,
> >>> and frankly if they had a plan they
> wouldn't need
> >>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>> money in the first
> >>> place. So if Congress wants to bail them out
> by
> >>>
> >> giving
> >>
> >>> them money,
> >>> fine, but let them get it as they deserve,
> from the
> >>> taxpayers and not
> >>> directly from Congress. Give the bailout
> money to the
> >>> taxpayer and let
> >>> the taxpayer make the choice of who they
> bailout by
> >>> exercising their tax
> >>> money as a vote when they buy a car.
> >>>
> >>> It's an all around better idea.
> >>>
> >>> Write your congressman (or woman)
> >>>
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
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> >
> > Mad Dawg Antenucci
> > Team Pantera Racing
> > The 1st & still the only vintage race team in
> open road racing
> > www.teampanteraracing.com
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