[DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
j g
notstock at yahoo.com
Tue Dec 9 09:27:06 EST 2008
you are right on the money here , I lived in Japan , china and europe over the past 20 years,in asia the protectionism is carried out through out society they will gladly pay more for a product that in many cases is not as quality as a foreign (USA) product inorder to help their country and economy over that of us in the usa.
jg
--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Steve Hawkins <shawkins777 at comcast.net> wrote:
> From: Steve Hawkins <shawkins777 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
> To: "'Mad Dog Antenucci'" <teampantera at yahoo.com>, notstock at yahoo.com, "'Pantera Forum'" <detomaso at realbig.com>, "'Asa Jay Laughton'" <asajay at asajay.com>, kenn_green at yahoo.com
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 6:31 PM
> I've failed to hear anyone mention the greed of the
> American consumer. They
> also demand lower and lower prices and refuse to buy the
> higher priced
> products. So what does that leave any company to do but
> try and lower cost.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:39 PM
> To: notstock at yahoo.com; Pantera Forum; Asa Jay Laughton;
> kenn_green at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT,US
> Auto Industry
> Bailout OPINION
>
>
> I have heard exactly the same thing from folks in the
> construction industry
> and seen it first hand....
>
> I listened to the power point presentation about how LABOR
> costs drive
> operating costs and how much money could be saved by either
> moving IT or
> Engineering support services either overseas OR bringing
> the foreign
> employees HERE on the hiring visas you mentioned.
>
> This is not so much about decreasing operating costs as it
> is about
> increasing profit and further reducing U.S. jobs and GREED.
>
>
> I have listened to several of our fellow club and Pantera
> owners talk about
> how they eventually just gave up trying to find a
> replacement job in IT
> since they had been priced out of the market....
>
> Think I and others am making this up? Talk to Rod Kunishe
> in Huntington
> Beach some time. He was one of the early IT executives in
> silicon valley who
> moved out of Bay Area to relocate to SoCal.
>
> Yea, I know there are other labor, illegal immigration, tax
> and
> mismanagement issues going on in this country but I think
> what JG and others
> are saying.
>
> MD
>
>
> j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote: This is more than
> Gut reaction , I have
> particularly been present to discussions by government
> representatives that
> have said ,to general managers and personel managers how
> to hire hib or
> l1a jobs and how to skirt the law requiring a U.S. posting
> and review. The
> worst i have ever heard said "is by hireing l1a or h1b
> visas you can at any
> time terminate the sponcership so the worker can be
> controlled to work the
> hours and conditions that benefit the company and if they
> complain the
> company just pulls the sponcership to eliminate a
> problematic worker." I
> have seen a document by the defense logistics arm Of the
> Gao that
> particularly tells defence contractors to hire irish and
> english engineers
> over US born because they are easy to get clearences and
> since they do not
> know the real economic situation in the US are willing to
> relocate at half
> the US pay rate , speak english and become at the graces of
> the company so
> do not complain about the harsh working conditions or
> wages that a US born
> free agent would for fear of deportation , This allows
> defence contractors
> to reduce their labor rate on government bids.
>
> Jg
>
>
> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Ken Green wrote:
>
> > From: Ken Green
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT, US Auto Industry
> Bailout OPINION
> > To: "Pantera Forum" , "Asa Jay
> Laughton" , notstock at yahoo.com
> > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:23 AM
> > I think most of us have the same gut reaction that you
> do,
> > but the big problem I see was shown by the cars that
> US
> > auto makers made before the Japanese raised the bar.
> I
> > don't know how you protect American jobs and
> industry
> > without corporations (run by the bean counters)
> settling
> > into mediocrity. But it does seem that the global
> economy
> > has not benefited the American worker much.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > --- On Mon, 12/8/08, j g wrote:
> >
> > From: j g
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT, US
> > Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
> > To: "Pantera Forum" ,
> > "Asa Jay Laughton"
> > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 6:06 AM
> >
> > how about we cancel all h1b and L1a visas, all green
> cards
> > , then force
> > "made in the usa" content legislation for
> all
> > industries just like
> > europe, china, india, japan and all of asia do as well
> .
> > i know that here in dallas 30 plus percent of texas
> instruments
> > engineering jobs are l1a or h1b visas yet we have
> enough us born
> > engineers to fill the same
> > positions that are qualified out of work.
> > to say restructure is jargon for "build overseas
> > " and put americans
> > out of work.
> >
> > How about full employement for americans first .
> >
> > that will put jobs back here in the usa and kepp our
> > economy moving,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Asa Jay Laughton
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: Asa Jay Laughton
> > > Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT,
> > US Auto Industry
> > Bailout OPINION
> > > To: "Pantera Forum"
> >
> > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:21 PM
> > > This is POLITICAL, but NON- PARTISAN. (no
> stumping candidates, not
> > > speeches, no jokes)
> > > If this gets me banned... oh well, I've said
> my
> > peace.
> > > This is -MY- opinion. If you AGREE, I would
> strongly encourage you
> > > to WRITE your congressman (or woman)
> > > This is about the AUTO BAILOUT being considered
> in the
> > U.S.
> > > Congress
> > > If you are NOT INTERESTED, DELETE NOW
> > >
> > >
> >
> ***************************************************************
> > > The REAL way to Bailout the Auto industry:
> > >
> > > Two sections:
> > > - Why Congress should NOT give any money to the
> > automakers
> > > directly
> > > - How the money -should- be put to use and why
> > >
> > >
> > > Why Congress SHOULD NOT give any money directly
> to the
> > > automakers:
> > > - This will only put money in -their- pockets
> > > - It will NOT reduce inventories
> > > - It will NOT make room for more
> manufacturing
> > > - It will NOT benefit anyone down-line
> > (dealerships,
> > > parts makers, etc.)
> > > - It will NOT prevent layoffs
> > > - It WILL ALLOW the Big Three to payoff the
> unions
> > even
> > > if it can't
> > > give out work.
> > > - It WILL ALLOW high level corporate
> employees,
> > > CEO's, etc. to
> > > BAILOUT of the company with high dollar pensions,
> > bonuses
> > > and severance
> > > packages. (It happend with the banking bailout,
> what
> > makes
> > > you think it
> > > won't with the auto makers?)
> > >
> > >
> > > - How the money -should- be put to use and why:
> > > - GIVE THE MONEY TO THE TAXPAYERS
> > > - A sight-draft type of check
> > > - Can ONLY be cashed in at a Big Three
> auto
> > dealer
> > > - May NOT be used to buy a foreign car
> (made
> > by
> > > anyone other
> > > than a big three company)
> > > - May NOT be cashed at a bank
> > > - Transferable (in case the taxpayer does
> not
> > or
> > > can not drive)
> > > - Auto makers and dealers may NOT
> manipulate
> > MSRP
> > > - Who get's them?
> > > - Impractical for every taxpayer
> > > - 140 million taxpayers as of 2007
> (IRS
> > data)
> > > - $25 billion divided by 140 million
> is
> > $178
> > > per person.
> > > - Eligible group must be narrowed:
> > > - $25 billion divided by a $20,000
> > sight-draft
> > > per person is
> > > 1,250,000 recipients
> > > - The number of recipients goes up if
> > Congress
> > > approves more.
> > > - Possible eligibility by income
> level?
> > > - To what income bracket will
> > 1,250,000
> > > checks be used up?
> > > - Possible first come, first served
> > > - Apply with U.S. Government
> > > - Web site or phone line
> > > - similar to the TV Converter
> > coupons
> > > - Must be an eligible Taxpayer
> > > - Must be registered to vote
> > > - voters are the people who
> should
> > have
> > > a say in this
> > > - Must have valid drivers license
> > > - Only ONE per eligible person or
> > family
> > > (household)
> > > - U.S. Government verifies
> eligibility
> > and
> > > issues
> > > sight-draft
> > > - The dealer completes the sight-draft check
> with
> > a
> > > valid VIN and
> > > presents it for payment.
> > > - The dealer pays the Big Three auto maker
> > > - And thus, they get their bailout money
> > > - Benefits the Tax payer
> > > - They can get a new car increasing
> personal
> > > equity, mobility, etc.
> > > - Benefits the environment
> > > - New cars are more efficient
> > > - Many buyers will most likely get rid of
> > their
> > > older car
> > > - Benefits the dealership
> > > - They sell the cars, stimulating local
> > economies
> > > - Benefits the Big Three auto makers
> > > - They get rid of inventories
> > > - It makes room for more manufacturing
> > > - Benefits the auto parts industry
> > > - The Big Three will need more parts to
> build
> > more
> > > cars
> > > - People will need spares or replacements
> for
> > parts
> > > that break
> > > - Benefits local governments
> > > - Sales taxes, license fees, etc.
> > > - Keeps more people employed
> > > - See the benefits listed above
> > >
> > > Think about it for a minute, it makes more sense.
> > Giving
> > > the auto
> > > makers the money doesn't stimulate local
> > economies. It
> > > just lets them
> > > continue with the status quo; supplying
> overpriced
> > benefits
> > > and inflated
> > > wages to union employees, building more cars in
> an
> > already
> > > super-saturated market. In addition, not many
> people
> > are
> > > buying new cars
> > > right now, so if you give the auto makers the
> money,
> > it may
> > > just put
> > > more unsold inventory into the pipeline which in
> turn
> > > increases the
> > > entire problem they have in the first place.
> > >
> > > Who says giving the auto makers the money will
> change
> > their
> > > strategy?
> > > If I had been a CEO of a major auto maker, I
> would
> > have
> > > been re-thinking
> > > business strategy years ago, not living with
> razor
> > thin
> > > profits, or even
> > > losses. You don't run a successful business
> that
> > way.
> > > I wasn't too
> > > surprised when they showed up in Congress the
> first
> > time
> > > with no plan,
> > > and frankly if they had a plan they wouldn't
> need
> > the
> > > money in the first
> > > place. So if Congress wants to bail them out by
> > giving
> > > them money,
> > > fine, but let them get it as they deserve, from
> the
> > > taxpayers and not
> > > directly from Congress. Give the bailout money
> to the
> > > taxpayer and let
> > > the taxpayer make the choice of who they bailout
> by
> > > exercising their tax
> > > money as a vote when they buy a car.
> > >
> > > It's an all around better idea.
> > >
> > > Write your congressman (or woman)
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open
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