[DeTomaso] Fw: NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION

j g notstock at yahoo.com
Tue Dec 9 09:22:41 EST 2008


let's see skilled labor ,, probably worked a whole lot of overtime to get to 130k CAN (90kusa) so 100k is not without a lot of overtime and not for unskilled workers again my pont , hourly workers must be paid for every hour they work  if they are required to work 60 hours a week they get paid for it. that is fair. 
jg


--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Will Demelo <wdemelo at cogeco.ca> wrote:

> From: Will Demelo <wdemelo at cogeco.ca>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Fw:  NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 6:23 PM
> """do any of you now work for the big 3 do
> any of you know someone working 
> for the big 3 ? The whole rants about 100k salaries is just
> plain horse 
> hockey. """"
> 
> Yes, my neighbour is a machinist at Chrysler. He made $130k
> (Can) last year. 
> He boasts about it quite often.
> Btw, the POS has just pulled a back claim 3 weeks ago (2nd
> time). How 
> convenient.
> It's funny how they boasted about how much they made
> before. Now they claim 
> to make nothing and work their hands to the bone.
> I'm curious. Who paid for the funds in the
> "top-up" bank ( top up pay when 
> they're laid off). Union dues? Really, I'm asking
> honestly.
> Will
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
> To: <michael at michaelshortt.com>; "Mad Dog
> Antenucci" 
> <teampantera at yahoo.com>; <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>;
> "Pantera Forum" 
> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT,US
> Auto Industry 
> Bailout OPINION
> 
> 
> >
> > guys
> >
> > do any of you now work for the big 3 do any of you
> know someone working 
> > for the big 3 ? The whole rants about 100k salaries is
> just plain horse 
> > hockey.
> >
> > Well I have worked for them and have neighbors that
> work for them here in 
> > the dallas area at asssembly plants .
> >
> > The union wage for a non skilled position is not any
> different here in 
> > Dallas  than that for a non union worker at AER a
> larger rebuilder in the 
> > area. The main difference is that the Uaw worker has
> slightly better 
> > health care , and has a union pension as part of the
> collective bargining 
> > agreement. The worker at AER has no medical insurance
> at all except what 
> > they buy themselves and has no pension or even a 401k
> possibility . One of 
> > my neighbors has to take their kids to the local
> county emergency room due 
> > t
> > o no health care at all .
> > The foreign automakers relocating to the USA have been
> given huge 
> > incentives by local governments such that no corporate
> or local property 
> > tax is expected for 25 years or more (honda - 98 years
> at Marysville) no 
> > state income tax--- BMW, Honda, Toyota , and since
> they have no older 
> > workers They have no pension and retirement insurance
> requirements like 
> > the big 3 have that are based on past collective
> agreements made by the 
> > company to the workers in exchange for lower wages and
> increased 
> > output.and to make u
> > p for moraly wrong intimidation like ford did all
> through the 30's thru 
> > the 50's ( Ford hired mobsters to beat up workers
> and union organizers as 
> > well as workers that spoke up against injustice)
> > Next Both the korean and japanese governments
> subsidize all the companies 
> > selling any where in the world to make the sell price
> of the product 
> > either lower than or as a minimum equal to the nearest
> competator in the 
> > particular market.  Toshiba ,Samsung , Toyota all have
> been fined heavily
> > in either the USA or europe  for this predatory 
> pricing . Next it used to 
> > be law that all pensions had to have full funding ,
> well during the regan 
> > years ALL companies in the usa were allowed to use the
> pension funds as 
> > liquid assests and not have full funding, JUST LIKE
> SOCIAL SECURITY.
> > The management of all large US companies went and
> raided the pension funds 
> > rather than borrow against assets this allowed the
> greedy to get larger 
> > bonuses because it did not come against the opperating
> line on the balance 
> > sheet.
> >
> > SO when one says the foreign  companies  donot ask for
> anything? Balony 
> > you are already subsidizing them every time you pay
> your state or federal 
> > income tax . Honda, toyota, BMW all laughing to the
> bank at the stupid 
> > Americans .
> >
> > jg
> >
> > --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Ken Green
> <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT, US Auto Industry 
> >> Bailout OPINION
> >> To: "michael at michaelshortt.com"
> <michael at michaelshortt.com>, 
> >> notstock at yahoo.com, "Mad Dog Antenucci"
> <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >> Cc: "Asa Jay Laughton"
> <asajay at asajay.com>, "Pantera Forum" 
> >> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 4:26 PM
> >> Dennis,
> >>
> >> I don't think the suppliers make even close to
> >> UAW wages. I would argue that if UAW members made
> only
> >> $100K, more US cars would be sold because prices
> would drop,
> >> and there would be more jobs at the suppliers. The
> high
> >> UAW wages probably hurt employment everwhere else.
> >>
> >> If Chapter 11 is the only way for that to happen,
> >> then so be it. I doubt the average car buyer sees
> much
> >> difference between needing billions of our tax
> dollars and
> >> Chapter 11.
> >>
> >> Ken
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Mad Dog Antenucci
> >> <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Mad Dog Antenucci
> <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA
> CONTENT, US
> >> Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
> >> To: "michael at michaelshortt.com"
> >> <michael at michaelshortt.com>,
> notstock at yahoo.com
> >> Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com, "Asa Jay
> Laughton"
> >> <asajay at asajay.com>, "Pantera
> Forum"
> >> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 1:56 PM
> >>
> >> I agree they should have...And you KNOW they will
> all be
> >> back for more.
> >>
> >> I was one of those who initially said the Big 3
> >> shouldn't get sheeeit and
> >> NO government bailout.......
> >>
> >> But reading and listening to a few our people on
> this List
> >> over the last week
> >> who are OUT OF WORK  has convinced me penalizing
> every
> >> supplier and small
> >> business and EMPLOYEE who had nothing to do with
> the
> >> unions, managing the Big 3
> >> or government would further make a bad situation
> >> worse....7.6% unemployment
> >> times the total number of folks not eligible for
> benefits
> >> or who are not counted
> >> some say really accounts for a number like 12-13%
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "michael at michaelshortt.com"
> >> <michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:
> >> This just off the wire, I love the first half of
> the last
> >> sentence.
> >>
> >> *"GM, which is now committed to making car
> consumers
> >> want to buy "*
> >>
> >>
> >> Duh!  Shouldn't that have been the plan all
> along??????
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> General Motors (GM : 4.83, +0.75, +18.38%)
> >> needs $18 billion from the government and
> taxpayers and
> >> wants the American
> >> people to know why.
> >>
> >> In an open letter titled "GM's Commitment
> to the
> >> American People"
> >> which ran
> >> in Automotive News, a trade journal ready by
> industry
> >> executives, lobbyists
> >> and other insiders, the beleaguered car maker
> candidly
> >> acknowledged it has
> >> disappointed U.S. consumers and pledged to do
> better. It
> >> said recent strides
> >> to improve the company have been hurt by the
> economic
> >> downturn, which is why
> >> it needs the loans.
> >>
> >> "We are in the midst of the worst economic
> crisis
> >> since the Great
> >> Depression," said GM in the missive.
> "Just like
> >> you, we have been
> >> severely
> >> impacted by events outside our control. Despite
> moving
> >> quickly to reduce our
> >> planned spending by over $20 billion, GM finds
> itself
> >> precariously and
> >> frighteningly close to running out of cash."
> >>
> >> Still GM acknowledged that while the economy is
> hurting the
> >> car company, it
> >> has made missteps it only has itself to blame.
> >>
> >> "At times we violated your trust by letting
> our
> >> quality fall below
> >> industry
> >> standards and our designs become lackluster,"
> wrote
> >> GM. "We have
> >> proliferated our brands and dealer network to the
> point
> >> where we lost
> >> adequate focus on our core U.S. market."
> What's
> >> more GM said it
> >> wrongly
> >> focused on pick-ups and SUVs over other brands and
> as a
> >> result "paid
> >> dearly."
> >>
> >> Indeed last week GM reported that sales fell 41%
> in the
> >> month of November.
> >>
> >> GM, which is now committed to making car consumers
> want to
> >> buy, said its
> >> restructuring actions should enable the company to
> start
> >> repaying taxpayers
> >> in 2011.
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> >> Team Pantera Racing
> >>   The 1st & still the only vintage race team
> in open
> >> road racing
> >> www.teampanteraracing.com
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