[DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION

Daniel Miller classicmusclecars at att.net
Tue Dec 9 09:06:41 EST 2008


And right there is a big dilemma.  Our government doesn't really care about small business, just big business.  And sadly it is the small business overall throughout the country that most people actually work for.  We really need a good program to foster small business for growth in this country.  I think if there was support for small business that was adequate, not like the current system, we would soon see our economy on the upswing.  There is strength in numbers....  Dan.




________________________________
From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
To: Pantera Forum <detomaso at realbig.com>; Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>; notstock at yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 9:01:37 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC:  REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION

By "gut reaction" I was only referring to closing the borders to foreign products.  Most of my engineering career was in aerospace, and the secutity clearances pretty much blocked foreign employment, at least where I worked, although the jobs that only required a confidential clearance were probably open to non-citizens. 
 
I agree with you that there is a big problem, and I mostly blame it on the bean counters running companies here,  The gal (Carly Fiorina) recently booted from HP had a degree in philosophy??  Figure that one out.  The board said she did a great job, the stock only lost half it's value and laid off a bunch of employees under her leadership.  I can't see that as success, I still can't understand why McCain thought she was so great???
 
I think most of the people running the biggest companies don't even think of themselves as American any more.  They view the companies they run as global, and if they can move a job outside the US, and increase their mega buck bonus as a result, it's off to China.
 
If anything saves our country, I think it will be small to medium size businesses where the owners (or at least those with still a controlling share of the stock) care about building something and creating jobs.
 
Ken
 
 


--- On Mon, 12/8/08, j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: j g <notstock at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
To: "Pantera Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>, "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>, kenn_green at yahoo.com
Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 8:05 AM

This  is more than Gut reaction , I have particularly been present to
discussions by government representatives that have said ,to general managers
and  personel managers how to  hire hib or l1a jobs and how to skirt the law
requiring a U.S. posting and review. The  worst i have ever heard said "is
by hireing l1a or h1b visas you can at any time terminate the sponcership so the
worker can be controlled to work the hours and conditions that benefit the
company and if they complain  the company  just pulls the sponcership to
eliminate a problematic worker." I have seen a document by the defense
logistics arm Of the Gao that particularly tells defence contractors to hire
irish and english engineers over US born because they are easy to get clearences
and since they do not know the real economic situation in the US are willing to
relocate at half the US pay rate , speak english and become at the graces of the
company  so do not complain about the harsh
working conditions or wages that a US born free agent would for fear of 
deportation , This allows defence contractors to reduce their labor rate on
government bids. 

Jg 


--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC:  REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry
Bailout OPINION
> To: "Pantera Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>, "Asa Jay
Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>, notstock at yahoo.com
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:23 AM
> I think most of us have the same gut reaction that you do,
> but the big problem I see was shown by the cars that US
> auto makers made before the Japanese raised the bar.  I
> don't know how you protect American jobs and industry
> without corporations (run by the bean counters) settling
> into mediocrity.  But it does seem that the global economy
> has not benefited the American worker much. 
>  
> Ken
> 
> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> From: j g <notstock at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US
> Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
> To: "Pantera Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>,
> "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 6:06 AM
> 
> how about we cancel all h1b and L1a visas, all green cards
> , then force
> "made in the usa"  content legislation for all
> industries  just like
> europe, china, india, japan and all of asia do as well .
>  i know that here in dallas 30 plus percent of texas
> instruments engineering
> jobs are l1a or h1b visas yet we have enough us born
> engineers to fill the same
> positions that are qualified out of work. 
> to say restructure is jargon for "build overseas
> " and put americans
> out of work.
> 
> How about full employement for americans first . 
> 
> that will put jobs back here in the usa and kepp our
> economy moving,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Asa Jay Laughton
> <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC:  REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT,
> US Auto Industry
> Bailout OPINION
> > To: "Pantera Forum"
> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:21 PM
> > This is POLITICAL, but NON- PARTISAN. (no stumping
> > candidates, not 
> > speeches, no jokes)
> > If this gets me banned... oh well, I've said my
> peace.
> > This is -MY- opinion.  If you AGREE, I would strongly
> > encourage you to 
> > WRITE your congressman (or woman)
> > This is about the AUTO BAILOUT being considered in the
> U.S.
> > Congress
> > If you are NOT INTERESTED, DELETE NOW
> > 
> >
> ***************************************************************
> > The REAL way to Bailout the Auto industry:
> > 
> > Two sections:
> > - Why Congress should NOT give any money to the
> automakers
> > directly
> > - How the money -should- be put to use and why
> > 
> > 
> > Why Congress SHOULD NOT give any money directly to the
> > automakers:
> >     - This will only put money in -their- pockets
> >     - It will NOT reduce inventories
> >         - It will NOT make room for more manufacturing
> >     - It will NOT benefit anyone down-line
> (dealerships,
> > parts makers, etc.)
> >     - It will NOT prevent layoffs
> >     - It WILL ALLOW the Big Three to payoff the unions
> even
> > if it can't 
> > give out work.
> >     - It WILL ALLOW high level corporate employees,
> > CEO's, etc. to 
> > BAILOUT of the company with high dollar pensions,
> bonuses
> > and severance 
> > packages.  (It happend with the banking bailout, what
> makes
> > you think it 
> > won't with the auto makers?)
> > 
> > 
> > - How the money -should- be put to use and why:
> >     - GIVE THE MONEY TO THE TAXPAYERS
> >     - A sight-draft type of check
> >         - Can ONLY be cashed in at a Big Three auto
> dealer
> >         - May NOT be used to buy a foreign car (made
> by
> > anyone other 
> > than a big three company)
> >         - May NOT be cashed at a bank
> >         - Transferable (in case the taxpayer does not
> or
> > can not drive)
> >         - Auto makers and dealers may NOT manipulate
> MSRP
> >     - Who get's them?
> >         - Impractical for every taxpayer
> >             - 140 million taxpayers as of 2007 (IRS
> data)
> >             - $25 billion divided by 140 million is
> $178
> > per person.
> >         - Eligible group must be narrowed:
> >             - $25 billion divided by a $20,000
> sight-draft
> > per person is 
> > 1,250,000 recipients
> >             - The number of recipients goes up if
> Congress
> > approves more.
> >             - Possible eligibility by income level?
> >                 - To what income bracket will
> 1,250,000
> > checks be used up?
> >             - Possible first come, first served
> >                 - Apply with U.S. Government
> >                     - Web site or phone line
> >                     - similar to the TV Converter
> coupons
> >                 - Must be an eligible Taxpayer
> >                 - Must be registered to vote
> >                     - voters are the people who should
> have
> > a say in this
> >                 - Must have valid drivers license
> >                 - Only ONE per eligible person or
> family
> > (household)
> >                 - U.S. Government verifies eligibility
> and
> > issues 
> > sight-draft      
> >     - The dealer completes the sight-draft check with
> a
> > valid VIN and 
> > presents it for payment.
> >     - The dealer pays the Big Three auto maker
> >         - And thus, they get their bailout money
> >     - Benefits the Tax payer
> >         - They can get a new car increasing personal
> > equity, mobility, etc.
> >     - Benefits the environment
> >         - New cars are more efficient
> >         - Many buyers will most likely get rid of
> their
> > older car
> >     - Benefits the dealership
> >         - They sell the cars, stimulating local
> economies
> >     - Benefits the Big Three auto makers
> >         - They get rid of inventories
> >         - It makes room for more manufacturing
> >     - Benefits the auto parts industry
> >         - The Big Three will need more parts to build
> more
> > cars
> >         - People will need spares or replacements for
> parts
> > that break
> >     - Benefits local governments
> >         - Sales taxes, license fees, etc.
> >     - Keeps more people employed
> >         - See the benefits listed above
> > 
> > Think about it for a minute, it makes more sense. 
> Giving
> > the auto 
> > makers the money doesn't stimulate local
> economies.  It
> > just lets them 
> > continue with the status quo; supplying overpriced
> benefits
> > and inflated 
> > wages to union employees, building more cars in an
> already 
> > super-saturated market. In addition, not many people
> are
> > buying new cars 
> > right now, so if you give the auto makers the money,
> it may
> > just put 
> > more unsold inventory into the pipeline which in turn
> > increases the 
> > entire problem they have in the first place.
> > 
> > Who says giving the auto makers the money will change
> their
> > strategy?  
> > If I had been a CEO of a major auto maker, I would
> have
> > been re-thinking 
> > business strategy years ago, not living with razor
> thin
> > profits, or even 
> > losses.  You don't run a successful business that
> way. 
> > I wasn't too 
> > surprised when they showed up in Congress the first
> time
> > with no plan, 
> > and frankly if they had a plan they wouldn't need
> the
> > money in the first 
> > place.  So if Congress wants to bail them out by
> giving
> > them money, 
> > fine, but let them get it as they deserve, from the
> > taxpayers and not 
> > directly from Congress.  Give the bailout money to the
> > taxpayer and let 
> > the taxpayer make the choice of who they bailout by
> > exercising their tax 
> > money as a vote when they buy a car.
> > 
> > It's an all around better idea.
> > 
> > Write your congressman (or woman)
> > 
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