[DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION

Mad Dog Antenucci teampantera at yahoo.com
Mon Dec 8 19:40:34 EST 2008


Steve

Excellent point...Plenty of guilt to go around./....I quess you missed my earlier point about our over priced homes that are not selling too well these days either....but I think its like Michael Frazier said earlier....we have wanted big trucks and big SUV's and that is exactly what the automakers have delivered....high priced vehicles with ghetto 22" wheels!
Yea, so wotz wrong with that?
Jus kidding

Dawg  

Steve Hawkins <shawkins777 at comcast.net> wrote: I've failed to hear anyone mention the greed of the American consumer.  They
also demand lower and lower prices and refuse to buy the higher priced
products.  So what does that leave any company to do but try and lower cost.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:39 PM
To: notstock at yahoo.com; Pantera Forum; Asa Jay Laughton;
kenn_green at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT,US Auto Industry
Bailout OPINION


I have heard exactly the same thing from folks in the construction industry
and seen it first hand....

I listened to the power point presentation about how LABOR costs drive
operating costs and how much money could be saved by either moving IT or
Engineering support services either overseas OR bringing the foreign
employees HERE on the hiring visas you mentioned. 

This is not so much about decreasing operating costs as it is about
increasing profit and further reducing U.S. jobs and GREED. 

I have listened to several of our fellow club and Pantera owners talk about
how they eventually just gave up trying to find a replacement job in IT
since they had been priced out of the market....

Think I and others am making this up?  Talk to Rod Kunishe in Huntington
Beach some time. He was one of the early IT executives in silicon valley who
moved out of Bay Area to relocate to SoCal. 

Yea, I know there are other labor, illegal immigration, tax and
mismanagement issues going on in this country but I think what JG and others
are saying.

MD


j g  wrote: This  is more than Gut reaction , I have
particularly been present to discussions by government representatives that
have said ,to general managers and  personel managers how to  hire hib or
l1a jobs and how to skirt the law requiring a U.S. posting and review. The
worst i have ever heard said "is by hireing l1a or h1b visas you can at any
time terminate the sponcership so the worker can be controlled to work the
hours and conditions that benefit the company and if they complain  the
company  just pulls the sponcership to eliminate a problematic worker." I
have seen a document by the defense logistics arm Of the Gao that
particularly tells defence contractors to hire irish and english engineers
over US born because they are easy to get clearences and since they do not
know the real economic situation in the US are willing to relocate at half
the US pay rate , speak english and become at the graces of the company  so
do not complain about the  harsh  working conditions or wages that a US born
free agent would for fear of  deportation , This allows defence contractors
to reduce their labor rate on government bids. 

Jg 


--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Ken Green  wrote:

> From: Ken Green
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC:  REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry
Bailout OPINION
> To: "Pantera Forum" , "Asa Jay Laughton" , notstock at yahoo.com
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:23 AM
> I think most of us have the same gut reaction that you do,
> but the big problem I see was shown by the cars that US
> auto makers made before the Japanese raised the bar.  I
> don't know how you protect American jobs and industry
> without corporations (run by the bean counters) settling
> into mediocrity.  But it does seem that the global economy
> has not benefited the American worker much. 
>  
> Ken
> 
> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, j g  wrote:
> 
> From: j g
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US
> Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
> To: "Pantera Forum" ,
> "Asa Jay Laughton" 
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 6:06 AM
> 
> how about we cancel all h1b and L1a visas, all green cards
> , then force
> "made in the usa"  content legislation for all
> industries  just like
> europe, china, india, japan and all of asia do as well .
>  i know that here in dallas 30 plus percent of texas instruments 
> engineering jobs are l1a or h1b visas yet we have enough us born
> engineers to fill the same
> positions that are qualified out of work. 
> to say restructure is jargon for "build overseas
> " and put americans
> out of work.
> 
> How about full employement for americans first .
> 
> that will put jobs back here in the usa and kepp our
> economy moving,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Asa Jay Laughton
>  wrote:
> 
> > From: Asa Jay Laughton
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC:  REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT,
> US Auto Industry
> Bailout OPINION
> > To: "Pantera Forum"
> 
> > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:21 PM
> > This is POLITICAL, but NON- PARTISAN. (no stumping candidates, not
> > speeches, no jokes)
> > If this gets me banned... oh well, I've said my
> peace.
> > This is -MY- opinion.  If you AGREE, I would strongly encourage you 
> > to WRITE your congressman (or woman)
> > This is about the AUTO BAILOUT being considered in the
> U.S.
> > Congress
> > If you are NOT INTERESTED, DELETE NOW
> > 
> >
> ***************************************************************
> > The REAL way to Bailout the Auto industry:
> > 
> > Two sections:
> > - Why Congress should NOT give any money to the
> automakers
> > directly
> > - How the money -should- be put to use and why
> > 
> > 
> > Why Congress SHOULD NOT give any money directly to the
> > automakers:
> >     - This will only put money in -their- pockets
> >     - It will NOT reduce inventories
> >         - It will NOT make room for more manufacturing
> >     - It will NOT benefit anyone down-line
> (dealerships,
> > parts makers, etc.)
> >     - It will NOT prevent layoffs
> >     - It WILL ALLOW the Big Three to payoff the unions
> even
> > if it can't
> > give out work.
> >     - It WILL ALLOW high level corporate employees,
> > CEO's, etc. to 
> > BAILOUT of the company with high dollar pensions,
> bonuses
> > and severance
> > packages.  (It happend with the banking bailout, what
> makes
> > you think it
> > won't with the auto makers?)
> > 
> > 
> > - How the money -should- be put to use and why:
> >     - GIVE THE MONEY TO THE TAXPAYERS
> >     - A sight-draft type of check
> >         - Can ONLY be cashed in at a Big Three auto
> dealer
> >         - May NOT be used to buy a foreign car (made
> by
> > anyone other
> > than a big three company)
> >         - May NOT be cashed at a bank
> >         - Transferable (in case the taxpayer does not
> or
> > can not drive)
> >         - Auto makers and dealers may NOT manipulate
> MSRP
> >     - Who get's them?
> >         - Impractical for every taxpayer
> >             - 140 million taxpayers as of 2007 (IRS
> data)
> >             - $25 billion divided by 140 million is
> $178
> > per person.
> >         - Eligible group must be narrowed:
> >             - $25 billion divided by a $20,000
> sight-draft
> > per person is
> > 1,250,000 recipients
> >             - The number of recipients goes up if
> Congress
> > approves more.
> >             - Possible eligibility by income level?
> >                 - To what income bracket will
> 1,250,000
> > checks be used up?
> >             - Possible first come, first served
> >                 - Apply with U.S. Government
> >                     - Web site or phone line
> >                     - similar to the TV Converter
> coupons
> >                 - Must be an eligible Taxpayer
> >                 - Must be registered to vote
> >                     - voters are the people who should
> have
> > a say in this
> >                 - Must have valid drivers license
> >                 - Only ONE per eligible person or
> family
> > (household)
> >                 - U.S. Government verifies eligibility
> and
> > issues 
> > sight-draft       
> >     - The dealer completes the sight-draft check with
> a
> > valid VIN and
> > presents it for payment.
> >     - The dealer pays the Big Three auto maker
> >         - And thus, they get their bailout money
> >     - Benefits the Tax payer
> >         - They can get a new car increasing personal
> > equity, mobility, etc.
> >     - Benefits the environment
> >         - New cars are more efficient
> >         - Many buyers will most likely get rid of
> their
> > older car
> >     - Benefits the dealership
> >         - They sell the cars, stimulating local
> economies
> >     - Benefits the Big Three auto makers
> >         - They get rid of inventories
> >         - It makes room for more manufacturing
> >     - Benefits the auto parts industry
> >         - The Big Three will need more parts to build
> more
> > cars
> >         - People will need spares or replacements for
> parts
> > that break
> >     - Benefits local governments
> >         - Sales taxes, license fees, etc.
> >     - Keeps more people employed
> >         - See the benefits listed above
> > 
> > Think about it for a minute, it makes more sense.
> Giving
> > the auto
> > makers the money doesn't stimulate local
> economies.  It
> > just lets them
> > continue with the status quo; supplying overpriced
> benefits
> > and inflated
> > wages to union employees, building more cars in an
> already
> > super-saturated market. In addition, not many people
> are
> > buying new cars
> > right now, so if you give the auto makers the money,
> it may
> > just put
> > more unsold inventory into the pipeline which in turn
> > increases the 
> > entire problem they have in the first place.
> > 
> > Who says giving the auto makers the money will change
> their
> > strategy?
> > If I had been a CEO of a major auto maker, I would
> have
> > been re-thinking
> > business strategy years ago, not living with razor
> thin
> > profits, or even
> > losses.  You don't run a successful business that
> way.
> > I wasn't too
> > surprised when they showed up in Congress the first
> time
> > with no plan,
> > and frankly if they had a plan they wouldn't need
> the
> > money in the first
> > place.  So if Congress wants to bail them out by
> giving
> > them money,
> > fine, but let them get it as they deserve, from the
> > taxpayers and not 
> > directly from Congress.  Give the bailout money to the
> > taxpayer and let 
> > the taxpayer make the choice of who they bailout by
> > exercising their tax 
> > money as a vote when they buy a car.
> > 
> > It's an all around better idea.
> > 
> > Write your congressman (or woman)
> > 
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