[DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
Rich
hoppe1 at cox.net
Sat Dec 6 13:32:17 EST 2008
Dennis
There may be a diference in the midwest.
Union jobs take a lot longer and are costlier to perform.
I was personally working for my Dad's company doing underground plumbing.
The BA came over to me and said I was working too hard and fast. I needed
to slow down because I was doing two days work in one. I swear this is the
truth.
I was also running a backhoe for electric lines. The electricians were
installing the conduits. A lump of dirt about 3 shovels full fell into the
trench that the backhoe could not reach. The electrians could not move the
dirt. They tell their supervisor, he gets the laborer supervisor and about
1/2 hour latter a laborer gets there to move the dirt. In the meantime
everyone stood around and waited.
That was the UNION rules.
They had and do have a purpose but need to be revamped. In some industries
they run y\business into the ground, if they want to.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
To: "Peter Kovacs" <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net>; "Asa Jay Laughton"
<asajay at asajay.com>; "Pantera Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT,US Auto Industry
Bailout OPINION
> Let me get the flame thrower out....This bailout of the Big 3 has nothing
> to do with generating jobs, saving jobs or improving the economy by buying
> a car for mismanagement.
>
> There is plenty of blame to go around both in management and the unions.
> But it is a shame to see hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country
> that never had anything to do with NOT buying a car or mismanaging these
> companies or a union lose their jobs and lose their homes. We can afford
> to bail out Freddy and Fanny and Citigroup and the Big 3 but not help
> taxpayers who have lost jobs and are now losing homes? No Peter I am not
> talking about the welfare cheat who bought a subprime loan....Or the
> ILLEGAL mortgage lenders, home appraisers and bankers on wall wtreet.
>
>
> Most of you slackers have never worked for a living. No I don't count
> sitting at a desk drawing pictures or playing on your computer or selling
> homes work unless it involves working 12 or 24 hour shifts or working
> offshore for 30 days straight or busting knuckles in 100F+ sun, driving
> rain or snow on a oil rig or a construction job.
>
> I'm not ashamed to say I have been in management for 25 years and damn
> proud of being in the trades before that. Every trade union member who has
> ever come on to a job I ran knew if he didn't perform he would be OFF the
> job before the day was out....and every BA (union business agent) knew it
> too. I can't speak to manufacturing but I can remember my brother who
> worked as a machinist for Boeing for 30 years working mandatory 12 hours a
> day 7 days a week. He didn't complain, he worked, got laid off and went
> back to work again for Boeing, paid his union dues and worked his ass off.
>
> Peter Kovacs <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net> wrote: Good thoughts. figure out
> how to avoid unwanted side affects in two areas.
>
> If you don't limit the ability of the person who just obtained the new
> vehicle to immediately sell the car, the first come entrepreneurial
> eligible person could purchase the new car(s) with the voucher, resell it
> for cash and further soften new auto sales by adding almost new cars back
> to the market at reduced cost.
>
> You would also need to insure that a person benefitting from the new
> vehicle would not subsequently let their existing vehicle be repossesed
> further stressing the banks and credit markets. Possibly limit eligibility
> to people who have not recently let a gov back home loan go into
> foreclosure or short sale,default on a student loan, filed BK, etc and
> impose a consequence if they do within 24 months.
>
> Current policy is to throw money at a problem. That keeps the problem
> coming. Throw money at the solution, things may change.
>
> I agree with your concept. Reward the responsible people and encourage the
> others to be responsible. Stop rewarding the irresponsible and encouraging
> others to be irresponsible.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent. I am still at work sifting through the carnage
> created by irresponsible people and choices as it relates to Central
> Valley Real Estate and loans....so I really apprecaite your way of
> thinking.
>
>
>
>
> Peter Kovacs
> Property Equity & Mortgage Mgmt
> 209 345-6708
> 209 523-4919 fx
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Asa Jay Laughton
> To: Pantera Forum
> Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 8:21:49 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry
> Bailout OPINION
>
> This is POLITICAL, but NON- PARTISAN. (no stumping candidates, not
> speeches, no jokes)
> If this gets me banned... oh well, I've said my peace.
> This is -MY- opinion. If you AGREE, I would strongly encourage you to
> WRITE your congressman (or woman)
> This is about the AUTO BAILOUT being considered in the U.S. Congress
> If you are NOT INTERESTED, DELETE NOW
>
> ***************************************************************
> The REAL way to Bailout the Auto industry:
>
> Two sections:
> - Why Congress should NOT give any money to the automakers directly
> - How the money -should- be put to use and why
>
>
> Why Congress SHOULD NOT give any money directly to the automakers:
> - This will only put money in -their- pockets
> - It will NOT reduce inventories
> - It will NOT make room for more manufacturing
> - It will NOT benefit anyone down-line (dealerships, parts makers,
> etc.)
> - It will NOT prevent layoffs
> - It WILL ALLOW the Big Three to payoff the unions even if it can't
> give out work.
> - It WILL ALLOW high level corporate employees, CEO's, etc. to
> BAILOUT of the company with high dollar pensions, bonuses and severance
> packages. (It happend with the banking bailout, what makes you think it
> won't with the auto makers?)
>
>
> - How the money -should- be put to use and why:
> - GIVE THE MONEY TO THE TAXPAYERS
> - A sight-draft type of check
> - Can ONLY be cashed in at a Big Three auto dealer
> - May NOT be used to buy a foreign car (made by anyone other
> than a big three company)
> - May NOT be cashed at a bank
> - Transferable (in case the taxpayer does not or can not drive)
> - Auto makers and dealers may NOT manipulate MSRP
> - Who get's them?
> - Impractical for every taxpayer
> - 140 million taxpayers as of 2007 (IRS data)
> - $25 billion divided by 140 million is $178 per person.
> - Eligible group must be narrowed:
> - $25 billion divided by a $20,000 sight-draft per person is
> 1,250,000 recipients
> - The number of recipients goes up if Congress approves more.
> - Possible eligibility by income level?
> - To what income bracket will 1,250,000 checks be used up?
> - Possible first come, first served
> - Apply with U.S. Government
> - Web site or phone line
> - similar to the TV Converter coupons
> - Must be an eligible Taxpayer
> - Must be registered to vote
> - voters are the people who should have a say in this
> - Must have valid drivers license
> - Only ONE per eligible person or family (household)
> - U.S. Government verifies eligibility and issues
> sight-draft
> - The dealer completes the sight-draft check with a valid VIN and
> presents it for payment.
> - The dealer pays the Big Three auto maker
> - And thus, they get their bailout money
> - Benefits the Tax payer
> - They can get a new car increasing personal equity, mobility, etc.
> - Benefits the environment
> - New cars are more efficient
> - Many buyers will most likely get rid of their older car
> - Benefits the dealership
> - They sell the cars, stimulating local economies
> - Benefits the Big Three auto makers
> - They get rid of inventories
> - It makes room for more manufacturing
> - Benefits the auto parts industry
> - The Big Three will need more parts to build more cars
> - People will need spares or replacements for parts that break
> - Benefits local governments
> - Sales taxes, license fees, etc.
> - Keeps more people employed
> - See the benefits listed above
>
> Think about it for a minute, it makes more sense. Giving the auto
> makers the money doesn't stimulate local economies. It just lets them
> continue with the status quo; supplying overpriced benefits and inflated
> wages to union employees, building more cars in an already
> super-saturated market. In addition, not many people are buying new cars
> right now, so if you give the auto makers the money, it may just put
> more unsold inventory into the pipeline which in turn increases the
> entire problem they have in the first place.
>
> Who says giving the auto makers the money will change their strategy?
> If I had been a CEO of a major auto maker, I would have been re-thinking
> business strategy years ago, not living with razor thin profits, or even
> losses. You don't run a successful business that way. I wasn't too
> surprised when they showed up in Congress the first time with no plan,
> and frankly if they had a plan they wouldn't need the money in the first
> place. So if Congress wants to bail them out by giving them money,
> fine, but let them get it as they deserve, from the taxpayers and not
> directly from Congress. Give the bailout money to the taxpayer and let
> the taxpayer make the choice of who they bailout by exercising their tax
> money as a vote when they buy a car.
>
> It's an all around better idea.
>
> Write your congressman (or woman)
>
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> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
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