[DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION

Ed Pike erpike at ymail.com
Sat Dec 6 12:40:48 EST 2008


Ken:

I don't diagree. My point is in the disparity in labor costs and the inability (mostly driven by law) for the Detriot three to be competitive from a labor cost perspective. Take out of the equasion whether you are in favor of unions or not, the fact reamins that the "imports" that have established manufactuting operations here are mostly non union and consequently have a cost advantage yet they have recieved a lot of subsidies from the taxpayer to locate where they are. I don't believe the above situation is the fault of the Detroit Three.

So do you subsidize the Detroit Three in the form of a LOAN to help level the playing field or not?

Again - just my two cents 

Thanks,

Ed...

 



________________________________
From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
To: Ed Pike <erpike at ymail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 10:11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION


Ed,

    I guess my answer is that UAW members are making over $70 an hour including benefits.  I have a BSME, MSEE, and JD, and have never made $140K in one year (partly because I keep doing free work for people).  I don't like my tax $s going to support someone else's artificially high sallary.

Ken

--- On Sat, 12/6/08, Ed Pike <erpike at ymail.com> wrote:

From: Ed Pike <erpike at ymail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout OPINION
To: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>, "Pantera Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 5:47 AM


Couple of questions....

What happens to the "check" when the tax payer can't get
financed?
What happens when the tax payer owes 10,000 on a car that is worth 500?
Why shouldn't a blind taxpayer be able to get a check and own a car even if
he doesn't drive it himself?

State an local governments spent alot of taxpayer money wooing foreign
manufacturers so they would put a plant in their state. The Mercedes plant in
Alabama is a good example. Tax abatements and free land. No repayment schedule,
as a matter of fact no repayment at all. 

Then there is the Hyndai plant and the Bmw plant.....? Why not LOAN to the
domestic corporations? 

Does any body know if the Mercedes, Bmw or Hyundai plants employ union workers?

Just a few thoughts from a different perspective. 

Happy Holidays All....

Ed.....




________________________________
From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
To: Pantera Forum <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 11:21:49 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC: REALLY NO PANTERA CONTENT, US Auto Industry Bailout
OPINION

This is POLITICAL, but NON- PARTISAN. (no stumping candidates, not 
speeches, no jokes)
If this gets me banned... oh well, I've said my peace.
This is -MY- opinion.  If you AGREE, I would strongly encourage you to 
WRITE your congressman (or woman)
This is about the AUTO BAILOUT being considered in the U.S. Congress
If you are NOT INTERESTED, DELETE NOW

***************************************************************
The REAL way to Bailout the Auto industry:

Two sections:
- Why Congress should NOT give any money to the automakers directly
- How the money -should- be put to use and why


Why Congress SHOULD NOT give any money directly to the automakers:
    - This will only put money in -their- pockets
    - It will NOT reduce inventories
        - It will NOT make room for more manufacturing
    - It will NOT benefit anyone down-line (dealerships, parts makers, etc.)
    - It will NOT prevent layoffs
    - It WILL ALLOW the Big Three to payoff the unions even if it can't 
give out work.
    - It WILL ALLOW high level corporate employees, CEO's, etc. to 
BAILOUT of the company with high dollar pensions, bonuses and severance 
packages.  (It happend with the banking bailout, what makes you think it 
won't with the auto makers?)


- How the money -should- be put to use and why:
    - GIVE THE MONEY TO THE TAXPAYERS
    - A sight-draft type of check
        - Can ONLY be cashed in at a Big Three auto dealer
        - May NOT be used to buy a foreign car (made by anyone other 
than a big three company)
        - May NOT be cashed at a bank
        - Transferable (in case the taxpayer does not or can not drive)
        - Auto makers and dealers may NOT manipulate MSRP
    - Who get's them?
        - Impractical for every taxpayer
            - 140 million taxpayers as of 2007 (IRS data)
            - $25 billion divided by 140 million is $178 per person.
        - Eligible group must be narrowed:
            - $25 billion divided by a $20,000 sight-draft per person is 
1,250,000 recipients
            - The number of recipients goes up if Congress approves more.
            - Possible eligibility by income level?
                - To what income bracket will 1,250,000 checks be used
up?
            - Possible first come, first served
                - Apply with U.S. Government
                    - Web site or phone line
                    - similar to the TV Converter coupons
                - Must be an eligible Taxpayer
                - Must be registered to vote
                    - voters are the people who should have a say in
this
                - Must have valid drivers license
                - Only ONE per eligible person or family (household)
                - U.S. Government verifies eligibility and issues 
sight-draft      
    - The dealer completes the sight-draft check with a valid VIN and 
presents it for payment.
    - The dealer pays the Big Three auto maker
        - And thus, they get their bailout money
    - Benefits the Tax payer
        - They can get a new car increasing personal equity, mobility, etc..
    - Benefits the environment
        - New cars are more efficient
        - Many buyers will most likely get rid of their older car
    - Benefits the dealership
        - They sell the cars, stimulating local economies
    - Benefits the Big Three auto makers
        - They get rid of inventories
        - It makes room for more manufacturing
    - Benefits the auto parts industry
        - The Big Three will need more parts to build more cars
        - People will need spares or replacements for parts that break
    - Benefits local governments
        - Sales taxes, license fees, etc.
    - Keeps more people employed
        - See the benefits listed above

Think about it for a minute, it makes more sense.  Giving the auto 
makers the money doesn't stimulate local economies.  It just lets them 
continue with the status quo; supplying overpriced benefits and inflated 
wages to union employees, building more cars in an already 
super-saturated market. In addition, not many people are buying new cars 
right now, so if you give the auto makers the money, it may just put 
more unsold inventory into the pipeline which in turn increases the 
entire problem they have in the first place.

Who says giving the auto makers the money will change their strategy?  
If I had been a CEO of a major auto maker, I would have been re-thinking 
business strategy years ago, not living with razor thin profits, or even 
losses.  You don't run a successful business that way.  I wasn't too 
surprised when they showed up in Congress the first time with no plan, 
and frankly if they had a plan they wouldn't need the money in the first 
place.  So if Congress wants to bail them out by giving them money, 
fine, but let them get it as they deserve, from the taxpayers and not 
directly from Congress.  Give the bailout money to the taxpayer and let 
the taxpayer make the choice of who they bailout by exercising their tax 
money as a vote when they buy a car.

It's an all around better idea.

Write your congressman (or woman)

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