[DeTomaso] Free Hydrogen

Larry - Ohio Time Corp larry at ohiotimecorp.com
Mon Aug 18 08:30:12 EDT 2008


Will and Lynn,

The .08 was not from this webpage. It was a "news" story I read on line.
Lynn thank you for writing something logical, much more then just a passing
comment like the reporter made.

It had me thing electric too!

Larry - Cleveland

-----Original Message-----
From: Will Kooiman [mailto:wkooiman at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 9:11 AM
To: 'Lynn Wall'; larry at ohiotimecorp.com; 'Ken Green'; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Free Hydrogen

I didn't find the part on the website that claimed 10 cents for 75 miles.
If that's really what they're claiming (as opposed to - in addition to
gasoline costs, etc.), it does sound incredible.

The highest we've gotten in the Insight is 80.3mpg.  It's under 2,000 lbs.
The aerodynamics are great, I think the Cd is around 0.26.  It has barely
enough power.  It's transportation, not a sports car.  Still, at 80.3mpg,
that's in the $3.50 per 75 miles range.  Any technology, plug-in hybrid,
fuel cell, etc. that cuts that down to 10 cents is impressive.

You probably couldn't even ride a bicycle for that much.  Remember, you have
to fuel your body too.

Will.

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Lynn Wall
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:20 PM
To: larry at ohiotimecorp.com; 'Ken Green'; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Free Hydrogen

Larry and all,  

Let me say respectfully, "don't believe it".

First of all many utility companies employ time-of-day billing methods that
can greatly affect your bill.  When these cars become more popular look for
the utility companies to figure it out and change billing accordingly.  How
long do you think it will take the utility companies to figure all this out.
My guess is that they are working on it as we speak.

Second,  $0.10 cents for 75 miles sounds too incredible.  The national
average for kwh (Kilowatt hour) is $0.108.  This is the equivalent of
burning a 100 watt light bulb for 10 hours.  I find it incredible that you
could move a 3,000lb vehicle even 5 miles for 1000 watts (a hair dryer is
rated at 1,500 watts.) or $0.10.  I know, I know there will be gas involved
somehow but I still don’t see it.

This technology just move the energy cost around, from gas pump to electric
meter.  I'm not saying that it won't be cheaper but my guess is the physics
won't match some of the rumors.  But you can always argue that it is better
to collect all the pollution at one location (such as a power plant) versus
100,000 cars with varying degrees of efficiency

I had a great discussion with the director of public relations with one of
the major automotive manufacturers.  It was fascinating.  He suggests that
the cars of the future will be plug in hybrids (combo of electrical from
your wall and a small gas engine or on-board generator like the Chevy Volt).
These types of car assume a national commute average of somewhere around 32
miles round trip.  That is why they target the first 40 miles without
burning gas.  If the assumption of 75 miles for $0.10 was true you could get
two days worth of commute for slightly over 10 cents.  WOW, sign me up.

His company has many hybrids (now you know it isn't Chrysler) and even a
hydrogen vehicle.  The hydrogen technology is energy negative (consumes more
than it provides) but that is only one issue.  Another minor issue is the
distribution.  However, this can be overcome just like gas distribution was
overcome by and for Henry Ford.  His, and other companies, created the
demand.

He felt the biggest issue is dealing with the fact that the worlds
infrastructure is not equipped to handle a lighter than air combustible gas.
Think about it.  Is your garage or your parking garage friendly to the
thought of hydrogen gas circulating in and around your light fixtures,
garage door operators, exhaust fans etc.?  All of our construction methods
assume a heavier that air fuel source.  This is why your outlets in your
garage are 48 inches off the ground, or should be according to the latest
building code.  In fact this company has a hydrogen fueling station with a
roof shaped like an "M" with all explosion proof fixtures, conduits and
outlets, very expensive.

It will be fun to watch.  I am anxious to see what the hobbyist will be
using in twenty years to "hop up" there cars.  Will they be talking about
the latest "flux capacitor", software, battery, inverters.....?

Maybe someone out there has better/more information.

This is just my 2 cents mixed in with his $1.50.

Lynn (fellow methane producing machine)

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Larry - Ohio Time Corp
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 2:20 PM
To: 'Ken Green'; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Free Hydrogen

Hi Ken,

I had the same thinking even on the plug in electric cars. Then I read that
the cost to recharge after the 75 mile days driving was $0.10

I do not know how true that is, but the price point is much better then what
my thinking was.

Larry (methane machine) - Cleveland



-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Ken Green
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:50 PM
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Free Hydrogen

    Where does the power to make the hydrogen comes from?  
 
http://www.ronnmotors.com/cms/
 
    I suppose batteries could be charged at home and used, but I'd like to
see the math.  I've seen descriptions of high mileage hybrids that are
charged at home to supplement burning gas, and I'm not sure how the cost of
the electricity balances, but I assume it's cheaper than burning gas?  It
still seems dishonest to quote super high mileage and not take the cost of
the electricity into account (maybe they do?).
 
Ken
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